[Stephen Crye]

Not that this will help, but I just discovered something about speed on my old computer:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/24/948331

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Thanks, sorry, that Canon is not the cam for me…

Since returning the NX5 I have tested and returned a VG20 and just last week a Panasonic AC160.

See my AC160 review here … I was not happy. At the bottom I list my requirements.

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/122/861745

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Hi;

I had three of these cameras over a 3 month period. Although I eventually rejected them because I am very picky about image quality, they are not horrible units.

One big advantage is they support the new AVCHD 2.0 standards, which features the new PS mode – records full 1080 at 60p, with a max bit rate of 28 Mbps.

I strongly recommend that you shoot everything in PS mode. One big advantage is that you never know when a bit of slow-motion will be cool in post! With 60p, you can slow down by a factor of 2.5 without loosing quality. Have a look at this sample – I had no idea while shooting that a horse would run through the stadium!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgsOsMvUK5c

Other reasons to use PS mode all the time:
* Drive space is cheap
* Reality is high-def. Why limit your options?
* PS mode, in addition to capturing motion better, will also capture more detail due to the higher bit rate (this is not obvious from the physics but my tests show it to be true, and other testers agree).

Have you applied the firmware update that came out in April that added the 1080 30p and also speed settings for the zoom rocker?

More info about the AVCHD 2.0 standard here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD
and here:
https://www.avchd-info.org/

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Hi Guy;

Ok, here goes.

Again, please keep in mind that I wanted to love the AC160. I really, really did. My mission in life is not to buy cam after cam just to harpoon them …

Here is the text description of the YouTube vid I just posted that shows some of the problems; following that is a link to the video.

I suggest watching it 720p or higher. No need to turn up the sound to hear the noise; if you can hear my voice at normal volume then you will be able to hear the zoom servo noise.

—————
I bought a Panasonic AG-AC160 after months of research. I really wanted to like the cam. I was excited when it arrived.

But I sent it back after only a day of testing. This camera has some severe flaws that outweigh the other great features.

Before all the Panny apologists lay into me, let me state that I’m happy if you like yours. But, compared to other cameras I have owned or tested, it is unacceptable. No camera is perfect, but for close to $5K, I expect it to be a LOT better than my good old Sony HDR-CX550V.

Other cams to which I compared it included the Sony NX5U and the Sony HXR-NX70U.

The biggest problem with the AC160: the zoom servos are horribly loud, if any zoom speed other than a slow creep is used!

I had never heard anything like this. Conceivably the unit I had was faulty, but I don’t think so.

The whine was so loud that it even came through on the recordings when using an external mic on a separate stand 6′ away. This made the camera useless for any serious recordings of classical chamber music. It also really bugged me on ENG stuff – whirrr, whirrrrr with every zoom. I’m speculating this cam uses a gearmotor of some kind to drive the lens, where the Sony’s I’ve used have a stepper motor. Puzzled but, just could not stand the whine.

The second biggest problem, one that I only noticed after I sent it back to B&H for a full refund (Love you B&H! The BEST camera shop in the world) was the HORRIBLE vignetting at full zoom. Again, the NX70 and NX5 do NOT have this problem!

The image quality was otherwise good, and the face detection worked well. I had no real problems with the auto-focus, although it was a bit slow at the long end in dim light. Also, I had no objections to the EVF – it could have a bit more magnification, but it is useable. It came with the Barry Green book.

Some things I might have lived with had the zoom been quiet and the vignetting not so horrible:

* The build quality is worse than I had anticipated, even having been warned. The rings felt a bit scratchy, not silky like the rings on a Sony NX5. The buttons are cheap and rattled at the slightest shake. The plastic housing felt thin; taps on the cam created a hollow sound that also came through on the recordings. The bottom plastic base, where the tripod attaches, in particular felt and sounded thin and cheap. I know Panny is supposedly trying to save mass, but it made me want to open up the case and line the housing with DynaMat to suppress the hollow sounds. In general it just felt cheap compared to what I have grown used to with Sonys.

* The handle zoom rocker is not vario. I knew about this before I bought it but it bugged me more than I thought it would.
* Instead of a lever-action dust cover for the lens, there is a misplace-able lens cap.
* The cooling fan noise is audible in quiet environments.
* I had problems with quick white-balance, i.e. when pointing it at a card. The joystick knob when set to one-push did not seem to work reliably. I’d prefer a dedicated one-push white balance button.
* The cam has more noise in low light than the NX5, but not a lot more.
* The manual focus-assist seemed annoying. I never did figure out how to leave the cam in Auto-everything mode and still have full manual focus. I’m sure there is a way, but Panny makes it hard to get to.
* The position of the LCD is not optimal – it needs to be up on the handle.

———

And the link to the vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0k6pt9jAJ0

I wonder if the fact that I am not a pro who makes a living from video affects my judgement. Whereas pros might be willing to live with some flaws, perhaps because they expense their cams or because the company owns them, I just can’t can’t afford to do that. I had to save for over a year and then take out a loan to amass the $5K I want to spend on a better cam than my old and beat-up Sony HDR-CX550V. I just assumed that cams costing 3 to 4 times as much would have a lot better image and audio quality. Also, a big part of my rejections is the fact that the little CX550V is a truly great camera – I really lucked out when I bought it as my first 1080 camera.

In surveying the market, even if I were to spend $30K+, I don’t see anything that meets my requirements. I need a light, compact camera – the AC160 is at the upper limit for mass and size. I need SDHC/SDXC (not expensive CF, P2 or SxS) media. I need a big, fast, zoomy lens. I need flat focus from corner to corner at all zoom levels, with no vignetting. I need a fixed, non-interchangeable lens and a small sensor so that I have deep depth of field. I need AVCHD 2.0 with 1080 60p. I need 1000 TV lines of resolution. I need a vario zoom rocker on the handle, and I vastly prefer a handle-mounted LCD. I need expanded focus. I need low, low coma and low chromatic aberration.

Each of the cameras I have tested since October 2011 (Sony NX5, NX70 and AC160) have come close but had one or two things wrong (different for each one!) that made them unacceptable. If it were not for the fabulous customer service from B&H I would be stuck with an NX70 – I only discovered the inconsistent edge focus problem after I had it for 6 weeks. B&H agreed to take it back, and in gratitude I am their customer for life.

Right now the only cam that might pass muster (that I have not already bought and rejected) is the JVC GY-HM600U – IF JVC gives it AVDHD 2.0 by the time it is out in October.

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

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[Stephen Crye]

Mike just posted an alert that yet another SVP 11 update is out!

Don’t feel bad about using SVP 10 – I sat on my SVP 11 until last week, and will not use it for critical projects for a while. But, have been playing with it on some junk projects.

One thing I don’t like as far as look and feel is the Render menus – yuk. Why coders have to change things just to change them is beyond me.

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Thanks, Brett.

This is useful and interesting. Because I’m obsessive about quality, I’ll probably start using the SSL version for everything!

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Panny Pro support provided the answers to my questions:

Is this one of the Panny Factory Service Centers that can do the upgrade?
>>support>> Correct

PANASONIC – PBTSC SERVICE 3330 CAHUENGA BLVD WEST LOS ANGELES CA
90068 (323) 436-3507

Two other nagging worries, not sure if you can help with this.
Assuming that I keep the cam and then send it in and pay for the upgrade, will there be any lack of features in my upgraded AC160 and the “true” AC160A?
>>Support>> The upgraded 160 will be exactly the same as a 160a.
I would hate to find out down the road that there is some subtle difference. For example, is it possible that future firmware upgrades might only work with a “true” AC160A?
>>Support> Future upgrades will work with the upgraded 160

My second fear is that the new “true” AC160A will have a better viewfinder eyepiece that provides more magnification for the EVT. Heard any rumors about that?
>>Support>No, VF will be the same.

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Hi Guy;

No, it was not the red thing, I was ready for that.

Are you sure it is OK to post my criticisms here? Don’t want to annoy the truly fine Panny People here in this forum. If you think it is OK, I can post what I sent to Jan. Please let me know …

One reason I don’t want to bother this group is that it is possible I might end up buying the AC160A, in which case I will be on here a lot.

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Beep?

Was hoping one of the BluRay experts would weigh in here.

My confusion/question: Source footage is interlaced. Need to render highest quality for BD that will be played back on Samsung HD TV. Do I set Vegas to not de-interlace?

My thinking is that I don’t need to de-interlace because the TV hardware will display the full 1080 60i natively.

But, I don’t know enough about BD format to be certain.

Thanks,

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V

[Stephen Crye]

Interesting … I’m happily burning lots of DVDs and BluRay with Sony DVD Architect 5.2 build 133. It is my preferred method of authoring disks. I have not installed the latest Build 135 (nervous).

I render my SVP 11 projects using the MainConcept codec for video only (creates a .mpg), then separate Dolby pro render (creates a .ac3, then bring those into DVDA.

Am I missing something? Did you mean that SVP 11 no longer can burn directly? That seems crazy, the menu options are still there …

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V