Barry Green
Forum Replies Created
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[firewireflow] “what the guy at rental space told me is that if i shoot 24p native im fine for editing and putting the footage on a video dvd … but if i want to broadcast it (ntsc) i have to make a “pullup”, which is supposed not to be the best solution … so if i shoot in 30p im fine broadcasting it …”
Well, yes, but he’s making it sound like a big deal when it’s not. If you want the filmlike look, shoot 24P. Edit 24P. When it’s time to output to a broadcast-compatible stream for HD, you’ll have to conform it to either 1080/60i or 720/60P, but it’s no big deal because FCP will do that for you.
30P will get output within a 60i container so no pulldown is necessary, but — it’s not a big deal. Every movie you’ve ever watched on TV or VHS has had 3:2 pulldown inserted into it to make it compatible with broadcast. It’s done all the time.
[firewireflow] “what i heard so far is that even if i shoot in 30p it still recording the footage in 60i (with an internal camera pulldown). is that correct? if yes … how i have to setup the timeline options in fcp to edit propperly”
Yes that’s correct, but it’s no big deal. Just use the Easy Setup for DVCPRO-HD 1080/30p (there is one, isn’t there? I don’t use FCP…) You could also edit it on a 60i timeline but I don’t recommend that, as any titles or motion graphics or dissolves would be rendered on a field basis and be a bit “disconnected” from the underlying progressive footage. If you shoot 1080/30p, edit it on a 30p timeline.[firewireflow] “the other thing is that we want to do a few slowmotion shots … so i figured out that if we are using 30p and it actually records 60i we easily can adjust the speed down to 50% … is that correct?”
Well, yes and no. You could shoot your slow-mo stuff at 1080/60i and import it into your project and play it back at 50% speed, selecting to de-interlace using an interpolation method, and it’d basically work. But you may be better off to just shoot your slow-mo stuff in 720pN mode, as you’ll get a lot more frame rates to choose from, and with a little scaling those clips should work great on the FCP timeline.[firewireflow] “and my last question is: what exactly is the difference between 30p and 60i if the camcorder actually records on 60i anyway???”
The images are created at 30p. They then get split into fields for recording, since in 1080 mode the video format (DVCPRO-HD) is only capable of handling interlaced. So each frame gets split into two fields for recording, and then in post they get un-split and recombined back into pure progressive frames. So the interlaced process is merely a “basket” that you carry the progressive footage within.
Yes the final recorded format is 1080/60i, but shooting 1080/30p looks very different from shooting 1080/60i. 1080/60i has the fluid “reality” look, the “video” look. Shooting 30p gives more of a stroby “film” look. Even though they both end up being recorded in a 1080/60i transport stream, the inherent footage carries a very different look.
[firewireflow] “and my very last question is: what is the deal with1080i and 720p if hd is progressiv anyway?”
Two different standards of HD. FOX, ESPN, and ABC all broadcast 720p. CBS, NBC, PBS, and Discovery all broadcast 1080i. They’re both HD, they both push about 60 million pixels through the TV every second, it’s just that 1080 is interlaced and 720 is always progressive.
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[gary adcock] “and then reconstructed back into the sony compatible format called a progressive segmented frame (same as hdcam shoots) 1080 24 plays back at 48i ( again just like hdcam)”
No it doesn’t. 48i never enters into the equation, that’s an HDCAM-only thing. In the HVX the footage is recorded within a 60i stream, and when imported into FCP it’s either treated as 60i (if the pulldown isn’t removed) or, if you shot 1080/24pA, the pulldown gets removed and it becomes a 1080/24P stream. Not fields anymore, it’s reconstituted to its progressive frames. All processing, effects, and rendering are done at 24P, not 48i.
You can’t output 24P to a broadcast-compatible stream without adding in some pulldown to round the sequence back up to 60i (or, for 720, 60P). FCP will do that for you automatically when you tell it to output the file.
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Here’s an article of it being used in “The 4400”
https://www.chrisoben.com/discoveringthehvx200_dcs_web.pdf—————–
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Okay, first of all, why is this message titled “P2 Hell” when you didn’t use P2 at all? You used the FireStore, and secondly your problems were created by FCP, not by the HVX or FireStore or P2 or anything like that.
The first source of your problem is that Apple insists on converting the files from MXF into Quicktime. Had they just supported MXF off the timeline you would have no problem whatsoever; you’d be cutting on MXF files on the Apple and you could transfer that drive straight to Avid and cut there too. It’s Apple’s conversion to Quicktime that is introducing the incompatiblity.
Second, and worse, Apple refuses to release the DVCPRO-HD codec on the PC version of Quicktime. That’s the real killer here. They have given Quicktime capabilities on the Mac that they haven’t matched on the PC, so you’ve created quicktimes on your Mac that are not PC-compatible, simply because Apple won’t make Quicktime fully compatible.
Sounds like a pet peeve, pointing out all these things, but if we’re ever going to get a solution it’s going to come from identifying what the true source of the problem is. Apple has to do one of two things: either produce a compatible version of Quicktime for the PC, or (vastly preferably) support MXF editing. Until they do that, the platform incompatibility is going to continue. And only Apple can fix that.
So, is there a way around it? Perhaps. Avid has produced a DVCPRO-HD quicktime codec that may allow you to directly import DVCPRO-HD quicktimes into Avid. Try downloading and installing the Avid Codec pack from here:
https://www.avid.com/content/9993/PCAvidCodecsLE.zipI think that’s the package that has the DV100 (aka DVCPRO-HD) codec. Try it, it might work.
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While you’re there, see if they’ll tell you anything about the new HPX500. That one sounds sweet! 2/3″ chips, interchangeable lens, four P2 slots, and everything the HVX does — 24P, 30P, 720/60P, 1080/60i, variable frame rates, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO, DV, etc. Only thing we’ve seen so far was a Japanese press release, but it would be great to hear something further!
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[Shane Dillon] “In a Post-production facility that doesn’t heavily rely on Final Cut,”
What do they rely on? If they’re on the PC you can use either http://www.dvfilm.com Raylight to export an .AVI, or you can use Serious Magic’s DVCPRO-HD decoder to export MXF files into AVI files. I think P2 Log is about the only standalone application on the Mac and it converts to .MOV files.
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[engineben] “Also, I was leaning toward 720 to save Harddrive space, but is the quality noticeably better in 1080?”
Yes the quality is better in 1080. It retains a bit more detail (about 20% more) and is significantly less compressed. But it’s not night-and-day different; 720 looks fantastic, and if I wanted to shoot the “reality” look I’d definitely choose 720/60p over 1080/60i. But if you’re doing something where quality is paramount (such as a green-screen shot or something) you should definitely try to do those shots in 1080p mode.
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If a clip exceeds 4GB, it will be split into two linked clips. In P2 Viewer or other properly-MXF-aware apps, it would appear to be one continuous/contiguous clip. In FCP prior to 5.1.2, you would have to import two separate clips and butt them together on the timeline.
It is my understanding that 5.1.2 fixes that, and FCP will now properly see and interpret the clips as one continuous clip, and when writing out the attendant .MOV file it will put both clips together and write out one long .MOV.
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You cannot play Firestore clips in HD. The HVX can play HD from the cards, but cannot pass an HD signal from the firewire port through its component outputs. It just doesn’t have that capability. It can send a standard-def signal through, and it can input an HD signal from the firewire port and send out s-video or composite, but it can’t send HD out from a firewire input.
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[kevin morrison] ” I involuntarily twitch when faced with the idea of using a Windows laptop”
I know you’re saying this tongue in cheek, but let me say in all seriousness — the PC laptop is a more reliable way to offload cards. It simply works better. Mac laptops can have issues with the cards; occasionally volumes don’t mount, sometimes Macs hang up after ejecting cards, and sometimes they glitch the footage when you copy footage from the cards. PCs DON’T. They are absolutely completely rock-solid reliable when it comes to working with the cards.
And they’re cheap. So you can spend $900 to get a used Powerbook G4, or you can spend $500 to get a new PC laptop that will be more reliable and more functional with the cards. If you want to buy an Apple solution out of loyalty, just be aware you’ll be spending more and getting less when it comes to reliability with the cards. If you want a solution that actually works better, twitch just a little but get a PC.
I’ve used the PC to offload hundreds of cards that get edited in FCP, and it always works without a hitch. When Apple and Panasonic get around to fixing whatever’s wrong in the Mac drivers, the Mac laptop will be a great option. But that day is not today. If you want a reliable solution that works right now, that you can trust your footage to 100%, no qualms, no worries, no glitches, no “volume failed to mount”, no lockups, no anything but reliable solid workable transfers — the Windows laptop is the one you should go for. And for offloading you can get the cheapest little Best Buy Holiday Special you can find, as long as it has a PCMCIA slot. With Thanksgiving Weekend coming up, I have no doubt you’ll find plenty to choose from for $399, and probably a super-sale somewhere for $299.
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Get the most from your DVX camera. The DVX Book and DVX DVD are now available on ebay and at Amazon (https://www.fiftv.com/db)