[Les Kaye]

[Tim Kolb] “all I hear from Avid guys is how terrible the media management is in PPro and how fantastic it is in Avid…is FCP any better?”
Unfortunately (or not), Media Management is a rather large umbrella that covers many workflows and features. In much of these areas Avid truly excels. Because the underlying Avid architecture is bin-based rather than project, it’s fairly easy to access bins from other projects with a simple File>Open command. This becomes even more versatile with Avid Unity in sharing bins and sequences among different users. This is something not as easily done in PPro or FCP. which are more whole project based. OTOH with XSAN, FCP does make it fairly easy for multiple users to share projects, and which we do all the time. Avid’s consolidate function is another standout among the NLEs. I can’t comment on either PPro’s or FCP’s consolidate function. There are those on the FCP forum who refer to the Media Manager as Media Mangler, and there are those who feel that user error plays a large part in the problems. Again, I can’t comment.

The part of Media Management where Avid doesn’t shine, is in the more nuts and bolts. Searching clips is a bear in Avid, which only works on a bin by bin basis, i.e. you can only search for clips in a specific bin, and not across all bins. Ths is something that can be done in PPro, although I gather it is limited to the single open project, while FCP allows searching among multiple/all open projects. Avid does have a Media Tool that will search across all bins, but it only looks for clips, and not sub-clips. It’s also unbearable slow. I believe there are some other positive media management tools in Avid, but they’re probably more valuable for a dedicated assistant.

[Tim Kolb] “As I said is several areas of my post that you did not quote”
I only quoted those parts that needed to be “clarified”. I wasn’t trying to rip you a new one…

[Tim Kolb] “There was too much resting on their laurels and their pricing until one day they realized that FCP and Discreet and any number of other players (including Adobe) were taking away sales, getting customers to even open up to consider another system based on pricing many times…”
You can remove discreet edit from the list of past Avid worries. While edit* certainly had a positive effect in influencing Avid’s features and workflow, discreet’s marketing of edit was probably more of a concern than worry. It wasn’t until FCP 2.0 (and especially 3.0) came around that Avid got that jolt of reality, saw the future and learned the meaning of “worry”. While I personally think they handled this surprisingly well by scrambling and gambling to make XPress Pro so robust and still compete with it’s high end line (something discreet was unable to do with edit from a sales point), in the end, Avid has turned into a company that follows. Whether pricing or technically, Avid no longer is a leader. FCP pioneered the afforable HD soluiton, and Adobe and Apple are both able to offer more finely tuned integrated suites, something Avid needs to go to third parties for (with the exception of Pro Tools).

I agree that Avid isn’t going away soon. It’s firmly entrenched in Hollywood and broadcasting, and no other NLE at the moment can seriosly compete with its Unity solution or with ProTools. However changes in our profession occur with ever increasing frequency, and with ever diminishing prices. I’m just not so sure that Avid will prove nimble enough to move with them. Followers generally never are. This was the case with CMX, LaserEdit, Convergence, Ediflex, Moviola, Steenbeck, Kem, et al – all leaders who are now footnotes… Not that I’m suggesting this of Avid.

[Les Kaye]

[Tim Kolb] “there were more units sold of Premiere than every other NLE”
Two things:
it’s rather difficult to consider it a “sale” if it’s being given away for free with a hardware board. Second, you also need to qualify that this was at a time when almost all professional NLE software was at least 10k-50k+ just to start, and Premiere could be had for $300-500.00 – when it was actually being purchased.

[Tim Kolb] “Does Avid allow you to edit audio on a video timeline”
Yes

[Tim Kolb] “but to slide it in increments of an audio sample?”
Unless something has changed, no. However this can be done in FCP and I believe in Edition & Vegas.

[Tim Kolb] “As far as Avid being antiquated…well, its editing and media management tools are second to none”
Hyperbole. I think you’d get quite an argument about Avid’s editorial workflow strengths at a number of different COW forums. It certainly has some powerful and mature features, but it’s also hobbled by a very antiquated design – it’s no longer “second to none” by a long shot. As for media management, yes, Avid’s consolidate feature is the most mature in any NLE. However for actually managing clips, it’s a bear and totally antiquated, with discreet edit and others (Lightworks would be another) far more flexible.

[Tim Kolb] “Avid has its traditional advantages intact”
This is about the least true thing one can say at this point:

https://www.nmr.com/page.php?page=1000650&set=1

The above link about the BBC is just indicative of the growing number of broadcast networks moving away from Avid. Showtime and Playboy are now totally FCP, as are an expanding number of production companies in Los Angeles (i.e. Bunim-Murray’s Real World is totally FCP, as are most (not all) of the major trailer houses). I’m not touting FCP here, only pointing out that Avid’s strength is diminishing and will continue to diminish. If Adobe steps up to the plate to actually enhance PPro as a mature NLE (sorry, it’s simply not there yet), then its powerful integration with Axio will only further accelerate Avid’s decline.

[Les Kaye]

[Matte] “Another might have been to Open a new BLANK timeline and edit from your first “iffy” version to the new one (still on separate distinct tracks.)”

Thanks for your response. Yep, I’m pretty sure I tried that, but can’t vouch for sure that I did. (the problem started on Thursday and finally went away on Friday). Curious though – could it have been something like my playback settings (Safe RT, etc)?
-Les

[Les Kaye]

[Jerry Hofmann] “WeibeTech or Granite Digital for the FW storage (if you buy the enclores from them, then buy a Hitachi drive and install it yourself, you’ll save some bucks there too), though the G-Raid I just bought is a beauty! This guy is sooooo sweet, but not cheap”

Jerry,
What’s the going rate for these, as well as for the additional RAM? Also, would FW 400 drives be adequate for NON-critical/NON-time-intensive personal at-home type work?

Thanks,
-Les

[Les Kaye]

Do you know if real time multicam works in the newest version? It didn’t before NAB.

[Les Kaye]

[Michael Buday] “This is where AVID really learned their lesson a long time ago”

Well, it wasn’t all that long ago. If you recall, Avid’s file naming used a hexidex convention that made it just about impossible to know what a file on the desktop was. They finally cleaned it up (I think).

[Les Kaye]

[Martin Baker] “Do you mean that the clip sources for the combustion project are “live” in the *edit timeline, so they can be changed at any time and the Combustion clip will automatically update”

Yep. Just re-render.

[Martin Baker] “In FCP I’d really like to be able to “peek inside” the Motion clip and get a sub-timeline where you could replace the footage if you wanted to.”

Which is why I’m surprised it doesn’t do this now, since a nested clip is created in the bin. I tried changing this nested clip, but it didn’t work either.

Thanks.

[Les Kaye]

Thanks.

[Les Kaye]

Walter Murch was also discussed on NPR’s “All Things Considered” this evening:

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4994411

[Les Kaye]

Thanks Jerry. No, it’s not a matter of simply trimming x number of frames, but actually replacing one of the FCP clips with a completely different one – apparently not an easy task from what I gather. On the one hand it’s a little surprising since the Motion team is basically the former Combustion team, where the integration with edit was/is almost sublime (In edit, the Combustion clip is placed ABOVE the edit footage sent over. Meaning that the actual Combustion clip can be copied and placed elsewhere on a timeline (or timelines), and thus could be re-rendered using the different footage below the duplicated/moved Combustion clip.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that given the team’s heritage, this would be something that will show up eventually – if only because it’s too clunky now…
-Les