[Tim Kolb]

[Richard Milner] “The funny thing is that PP is very workable when the jobs aren’t so big, and with better asset management tools, I probably would be very content.”

Hi Richard,

Adobe is aware of the issue. getting the software to handle 30,000 assets may be a handful, but they do have this on the list of areas that need attention.

If the bridge were a bit more integrated perhaps…that might help to offload some of the burden. Vegas uses explorer as it’s browser…

I agree with Marisu’s assertion in this (or the other, similar thread) that it’s RAM release that is the issue…in my case i don’t really do 30,000 discrete asset edits, but I do elaborate ones with lots of layers and for a time, lots of dynamic links and photoshop docs and titles and keys, etc, etc…and once the project file grows, it does affect stability.

I think when those who are criticizing accessing those types of assets are talking, they aren’t really thinking about the fact that PPro handles just as many audio tracks as video tracks. The audio portion of a small independent feature with sound effects, music, etc, could easily run into thousands and thousands of clips…and they may be running 4-8 at a time, so the linear “30,000 assets at 5 seconds a piece would play back until the end of the world” argument does not hold up when you’re running multiple tracks of video and 8-12 simultaneously active tracks of audio with maybe 30+ tracks of audio available with specific purposes for dialogue, etc (a workflow that Adobe suggests by being able to use audio effects on a track basis…leaving tracks customized for specific roles like a certain actor’s voice, or something similar…), not to mention that a 5 second sound effect might be “in use” for a second or less, or blended with 5 other sounds to create a sound that the viewer perceives as one sound…

I can’t figure out why it should drive the project file to instability to have a link to a file in the bin…or 1000 links…it isn’t as if all the assets need to load into RAM.

We don’t all make similar projects, I’m not sure I understand why we can’t accept that we don’t all have the same workflow. Some of these workflows may appear extreme to some of us that haven’t experienced similar projects, but that doesn’t make them illegitimate…maybe challenging for the software to support…but not illegitimate.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

[Harm Millaard] “Or a Pro would be expected to plan his work flow in such a way that it would be manageable, efficient and productive…..”

You need to be careful with these sorts of statements I think…

There is no one way to work through a post production project. Nobody’s workflow is “correct” or “incorrect”…

I recently had a less than 5 minute long heavy compositing piece that tested the large project issue not through project file size alone, but it was a combination of number of assets, complexity of edit, etc. Having a lot of Dynamic link comps or a lot of Photoshop docs can also cause stability issues.

Marisu posted some time ago that she keeps her task manager performance window open to monitor the size of the page file and she changes focus to the task manager when it gets dangerously large, which seems to “purge’ it and keeps on going. I’ve adopted this and it works (thank you Marisu).

You can’t say that someone’s workflow is wrong because they end up hitting an application limitation that you don’t experience any more than you can say their workflow is wrong when they ask for a feature that you, personally, have no use for…

I’m personally a little weary of everybody, regardless of viewpoint, using the “pro” or “professional” word as some sort of standard or promise or deception tactic, or whatever… yes, Premiere “Pro” has “Pro” in the name…yes, some “Pros” are having a difficult time with some of these issues and they are legitimate, but some “Pros” aren’t. Not every “Pro” has total control over their workflow…not every “Pro” even chose to buy PPro, it may be what is there to work with…and even “Pros” who use other applications have their issues too.

The bottom line is that if you need the application to do something that it doesn’t, or doesn’t do well, and you get paid to do what you do, I guess you’re a “Pro.” However just because you get paid doesn’t mean you can control the number of assets you need to work with…and I tend to shuffle timeline clips a lot, so maybe I’m an amateur…

As I have said in the past, asking for these things is not an illegitimate exercise, Adobe needs to know these things so they can improve their product. Being involved with development projects in the past though, I can also say that if Adobe (or any software vendor) doesn’t come through, it does not mean they are ignoring the user. It may cause some users to have to buy something else to get some functionality causing a loss of customers…and I think those customers need to get whatever tool does what they need it to do…but it doesn’t mean they are ignoring them because they were unable to get a modification that was requested into the software.

I guess I’m saying that calling a given product unfit for your own use is a perfectly legitimate statement, calling it unfit (or for that matter completely “fit”) for “professional” use is over generalizing almost every time.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

[mike velte] “I have seen relatively simple project files grow to 50-75 MB apparently because the editor dropped his assets directly into timeline in no certain order and spent hours rearranging things.”

Yes…well unfortunately that is how some of us work.

I think you’re correct that this is what causes huge project files Mike, but to my mind this is the most important area that needs looking at in PPro. This simply shouldn’t happen. If Adobe wants to play with Avid, media asset management and stability are the areas where they need to measure up.

Don’t get me wrong, I use PPro as my editing software and I enjoy using it and like it’s functionality, but in the case of dynamic link, having one in a project is OK, but if you have a timeline full of them for an elaborate compositing project (like I recently had…in HD) and try to stay organized by using multiple AE projects instead of piling all the comps into one project, things can get hairy.

As much as I love the dynamic link feature, I’ve really started to fall back to my traditional workflow as the projects simply become unstable at a certain point. Adobe is aware of the issue BTW, even as it is a little hard to reproduce as it seems to be a combination of project complexity, number of assets, length of timeline, etc…

This is the one area I’m placing some hopes on for the next rev…I hope they can get it straightened up.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

I run four monitors…I have two monitors on a PNY nVidia 4500 and two more on a n FX 540…I want to replace the 540 with a dual DVI card.

With nVidia, the nice thing is that the same software drives two of their pro cards and monitor issues can be dealt with from one interface.

I don’t know how they run their consumer cards.

The Matrox Parhelia is also a great card that can run 3 UI monitors or two UI monitors and a video monitor.

I’m not sure how one would fair mixing brands of video cards…

If I didn’t use the 4500’s extra capabilities, I’d be tempted to try two Parhelias for a total of 6 heads…clients would really think I was talented then…

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

Of course Machina will play out to the Xena card…

The issue with “random” movies would probably be nonstandard framesizes and rates, which would have to be converted to run out a standard HDSDI pipeline…which I have never tried through Machina, but I don’t think Machina was designed as a “universal” player.

Typically I end up using an extra UI monitor.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

In the case of the 30″ dual-link DVI Dell, the display card actually has to make the alterations necessary to “calibrate” the monitor…actually calibrating the signal sent to it.

Higher end display cards have more user-adjustable parameters than the lower end models.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

Yes, it works because it has the Canopus codec on it.

Once upon a time, Canopus used to have a read-only DV codec that was free to download…

Almost any software will import the canopus DV files, but the codec has to exist on the machine.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

It seems fine to me. If it helps all around, it seems pretty straightforward.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

Thanks Tony.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Tim Kolb]

Thanks Vincent…I did call VER…their computers were down but they are going to get back to me to quote.

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net