Samuel Frazier
Forum Replies Created
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Thanks everyone for the responses. It is exactly b/c I know there was roundtripping b/t earlier versions of FCP that I was surprised to hear reference that an older version of Shake would still do this with a new version of FCP. So I thought it was a mistake or oversight. I did look all over, but couldn’t find anything to confirm this. But apparently it’s not an oversight, so rock on! Alan, I understand your frustrations with Red. I can’t say I’ve had the color space problem, but perhaps I just didn’t notice it. I think everything looked okay though. Transitions are a problem, yes. I’ve also found Red can’t export 24p, only 24fps. I pointed this out to them a couple months ago and it is still present in Red 4. How this escaped them for so long is inconceivable. I’m not sure if this problem also exists when Red is used as a plugin for FCP, but I suspect so as it’s def there when used as a stand alone engine. Shake would be my replacement for all this nonsense.
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That is very interesting. If it works, what would it mean for Automatic Duck”s Pro Export? I suppose it would have no impact if you use that product to go to Avid rather than DAWs. For what it’s worth, I’m told there’s a program call Cui Bono that can take an OMF from FCP and some other programs and take it into Sony Vegas along with other DAWs and maintain the volume and pan info. Some peole swear t works for them but I haven’t tried it. It never made sense to me as I thought you needed something like Automatic to add this kind of data to an audio export.
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Thanks for the response, Dave. This does get confusing and I had to read through your post a few times and think about it a good bit. What I’ve come up with is this:
1- Conforming 24p to 25p reduces the running time. I didn’t know that. So, for the audio to match this would would have to shorten it. But, that sounds like a fairly complecated proceedure, relying upon a lot of formulas, and I would think sync would be hard to maintain. I’ve done this kind of thing before (when I sped up a movie to make a 5min limit) and found STP did not keep the sync as well as my DAW, Sony Vegas. Also, this is actually a different proceedure than what I had mentioned before as now you’re shortening the audio and want to maintain the pitch, whereas the method I was describing was to keep the same length but alter the pitch. More on that later.
2- What I was talking about doing was just taking an ordinary 24p NTSC DVD and playing it on a PAL DVD player. My understanding is that the PAL DVD player will play back 24p NTSC DVDs, only 4.096% faster. So the whole movie is 4.096% shorter on PAL. This applies to both the video and the audio, which leads to the audio sounding a tiny bit like Alvin and the Chipmunks. My solution to this problem was that complecated formula where the duration of the audio doesn’t change but the pitch is lowered 4.096%. That way when the PAL DVD player speeds it up by 4.096%, it will be back to its normal pitch.
3- All of this was a LOT easier in my old editor, Vegas. If you want to make a PAL DVD, you could actually encode it either as 25p or 50i MPEG2 straight from whatever timeline you had. The PAL version would be the same length as the NTSC, so you could use the same audio. Results were very clean.
4- I just would think there’d be an easier way to do this in FCP. Mr Nattress, I know you’re busy with all things RED, but it sure would be a nice addition to your Standards Converter. Just a thought.
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Thank you both for the help! I really appreciate it. My understanding though, and I could be wrong, is that if you make a PAL version of your video then you won’t need to do anything to your audio. I thought the 4.096% speed up only comes when you put in a 24p NTSC DVD into a PAL DVD player, otherwise the length of the movie should be unaffected. So, as I understood it, if I make a PAL formatted DVD then it shouldn’t be sped up and I wouldn’t need to make any adjustment to the audio. Am I wrong about this?
I know that at least some PAL DVD players play 24p NTSC DVDs as I brought a few I made a couple of years ago to Ireland. They played in my friend’s DVD player fine, but that was the extent of the test. -
Thanks for the response! Unfortunately, now I’m a little confused. My understanding was that 24p DVDs should play back on PAL DVD players, only 4.096% faster. So my movie will have a slightly shorter running time when played in PAL areas than in NTSC areas. So, my whole plan for PAL was to take the faster video as is and adjust only the pitch (not the duration) of the audio. This way the audio and video should still always be in sync, only in PAL areas the extra speed will make the lowered pitch of the audio sound normal. Does that make sense? If so, will it work, or are there better ways to do this?
Thanks again for the help! -
Just wanted to say thank to everyone for all the responses and the help. I guess there’s a little more to it than I thought. Just last night my friend said one big reason for the MacBook was to download p2 cards from an HVX200. Then I had to tell him that unless something happened that I hadn’t heard about, that still was amajor drwaback. Oh well. I’m actually looking into a BookBook Pro, and it looks like that’s a better choice. But maybe I’ll wait until FCP 6. Thanks again!
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Peter, thank you very much for getting back with me. Is this a problem with Red 4 as well, or just Red 3? Again, I appreciate your getting back with me, but I really don’t understand how this slipped through the cracks for so long. With as many people working with 24p material these days I’m shocked that this hasn’t been noticed and dealt with before now.
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Thanks for the help! By the way, I love your podcasts. Anyway, my substitute workflow has been to do the audio portion of the speed change in Vegas and SoundForge. I’ve been a little hestitant to rely upon that as listening to what they produce is very slightly out of step with what AE produces. Watching the clip with the Vegas/SoundForge audio the sync seems fine though as far as lips moving at the right time and all that.
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Thanks for the help! I’ll go with the latest QT then. About the hard drive, actually I tried to clone it with Disk Utility but got an error after about 1.5 hours. Figured it was b/c the drive was having that hardware issue. One AppleCare Tech said Disk utility wasn’t the way to go, but that 3rd party software was.
Done more trouble shooting and wasted more time, I just figured I’d be better off following Jerry Hofmann’s advice in the article and start from a clean slate. At this point I’ve already got a new drive with 10.4.8 loaded, so I figured I might as well go all the way. -
I’ve always used Boris Red for this. I believe Boris FX has the same filters though, Velosity Remap and Optical Flow. I’d be curious to get options on how Red and Shake did against Twixtor or ReTimer.