[Peter Groom]

Good advice from JC. Its heartening to hear that we seem to agree with eachother, without ever having spoken, although we do both work in the dubbing theatre.

If youre really keen to try surround, why dont you do both. make a good solid stereo mix which is intended for the showing.
Additionally, as there is no client, and no cost in getting it wrong, and a whole lot of fun and experience to be learned from this, you can tryout a surround mix. maybe have a private screening of this before hand so you decide which gets a more public airing.

As the playback will be on Bly ray, then audio wise you need to supply an AC3 file. this is an encoded multichannel audio file that then gets married with the pictures in the disc authoring process. How you make the ac3 will be down to what software youve got (or get)

The actual mixing is as JC and I have discussed. Your audio DAW hopefully will support surround mixing. Go for 5.1. Thats 5 full bandwith channels and a .1 for LFE. (also already discussed)
Surround is really pointless unless you have a reason to surround the audience. Its not just “because i can” it should be “because this adds to the listener experience, so look at the pictures.
Put people in the park, rather than looking at it. People will feel like theyre AT the fairground, if the roller coaster swoops from behind their head, but the visuals must make sense. Just 2 examples to get you thinking about WHY something might be behind you.
Your DAW hopefully will allow the output of 6 discreet stems. L C R Ls Rs .1. These files are just normal audio .wavs with varying levels in them that when played back together, re reate the soundfield for the listener. These all run the ENTIRE prog length even though some will have very little in them.
Calibrating your mixing space is REALY important, otherwise how will you have even the faintest idea how loud something shoudl be, so id suggest this as a basic work around at home.
1) Position your 6 speakers so that, using a piece of string form your seat to each speaker cone around you is the same distance. Position the sub speaker on the floor between the C and L speakers.
The front 3 should be facing you angled slightly.
The rear 2 shoudl be angled slightly more to the area behind your seat.
2) Your mixer desk may have a rotating pink noise calibration mode. Or use a piece of pink noise from your daw. Play it to each speaker independantly. Youll need a spl meter. If youve an i phone or other app phone, download a cheap spl meter. PUT it on your seat where youre sitting in the centre position.
Set the volume of each speaker so they are giving the SAME value on your spl meter in the correct listening position.

Now youre better placed to actually mix some audio. Id strongly suggest you take a look at PPMulator. This has surround metering and is a downloadable prog. Not free but pretty affordable. Then you can see better what levels youre creating.
You can mix to full scale but dont go too hot as distortion is never nice!

Good luck. Enjoy. Learn.
Do come back and tell us what you did and how you found things.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Steve
This might seem a little offbeat but bear with me.

If you want 4 channels on a zoom of external inputs, if it were me id open the zoom up and mod the onboard mics so they were disabled (or switched). Id fit 2 flying XLRS to the connections inside where the onboard mics fed their signal to so i could have 4 independantly adjustable and recordable mic inputs.
Ok so you trash your warranty, but these Zooms things are throw away money anyhow (only about £300 in the UK). Whats the worst that can happen.
If youre handy with a soldering iron and meter its an option.
NB IM NOT ENCOURAGING ANYONE WITHOUT ANY TECHNICAL ABILITY TO POTENTIALLY BREAK THEIR ZOOM RECORDER, but its a minor mod.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Agreed.
peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

XLR all the way. Pay the extra, whatever it is, if your end product matters to you.
3.5mm jacks are “unbalanced” This means in laymans terms that they are MUCH more likely to have interference / mains hum picked up on them.
And if you must use 3.5mm jacks, keep the cable length to an absolute minimum to reduce this risk. Xlr s are balasnced. ie they still have the intereference but it is removed from the signal by the additional cores and electronics being in antiphase to eachother.
And anyway, xlr devices like the Zoom recorders are buttons cheap. How cheap do you want to go??
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Hi.
Id suggest that you post this question in a different forum. There is one called “Audio professionals” where the audio guys (including myself) lurk. You culd also try the DUC.
Although I know that AVID now own Digidesign and therefore pro tools, but this forum really is AVID in the purest sense of the word, where it really means video editing on AVID.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Any reasone why youre not wanting to put personal mics on all speakers, and either record each separately to a multitrack and mix it later, or put them through a mixing desk and mix it live.
Seems to me that you want to hear clearly and crisply what everyone says, so thats the way to do it.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Hi
I dont think youre missing anything.
Ive hunted through the menus on mine and it doesnt appear that you can do that.
Id never realised it, as Ive never found any use for the 2 microphones on the unit so its never presented as a problem to me.

Fire off an email to the manufacturers asking for a feature.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Ive added my comments below your paras.
Hopefully JC will come along and add his comments as hes very experienced in this area too. I dont mean to be negative, but I dont really think youve understood the task.

Hey! I am filming a movie trailer that will be played at my local movie theater for a select audience. I want the best sound possible so I’m wondering, what type of surround do I mix this in?: 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, something.1 that I don’t even know about?!

A.What does the theatre need as a deliverable????

I’ve never mixed surround, but since my production is mainly a documentary, the surround would be mostly filled with ambient sounds and atmosphere, as well as music. If I am wrong in this account PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

A If youve never mixed surround, id advise taking it to a post house that is experienced, and learn from the mixer there. is totally different to any other type of mixing.

My productions are typically mixed in stereo and I’m editing in Premiere Pro CS5 but will more than likely edit the audio on my Mac using Soundtrack Pro or Logic (I like it a lot better than Audition).

Does this audio app support surround mixing?

So that’s my main question: what type of surround? I’m hoping 5.1 will be fine since I’ve never mixed surround before.

A Again this is down to the requirements of the theatre. What is it being played off. DVD? Optical ? ????The choices are almost endless.

I have a good surround system at my house and I’m going to test it on there first to make sure it all sounds good. I’m going off of the sound of movies that I watch on my surround to ask my next question which is this: Where do I put what sound???

This is what I think –
Center Channel: dialogue and directional sound (say if a car is driving from left to right, it’ll go from left to center to right)

A Wrong. Only dialogue goes front center.

L/R Channels: music, ambiance, directional sound (car driving by)

Surround L/R channels: music, ambiance, atmosphere

and for the .1: do I mix an LFE channel?

LFE is low frequence effects. ie ONLY sounds specifically added for the theatre experience where LF material is used. NOT a way of making the music sound bassier or the voices deeper. The LR and C speakers are full range.

If I mix the music in to L/R and Surround L/R would it sound weird? I want the theater to be full of sound and not just sound like it’s all coming from up front (stereo).

Id delay the music going to the rears by a few milliseconds, and Id send it through a reve4rb before hand so this more disperse sound comes behind not the direct music.

Thanks so much for any help, I’m truly lost with this!
Go to a post house. This is NOT something youll learn at home in an hour. great fun to try, learn, and make mistakes on, but do that without an audience or client. No one will praise you for biting off more than you can chew.

Mixing for a theatre needs specific routing, metering and monitoring (not a home cinema system). The levels rules are different, the size of mix room is important. The abilities of the DAW are crucial. Once mixed in the studio you have what are called 6 “discreets” One for each channel. This then gets manipulated either into an ac3 for dvd authoring, or onto a magneto optical for film transfer. All specific territories that youll not get right on your own or without specific equipment and training.

Enjoy the learning curve, but do hire a studio to mix it and create the right deliverables. You can prep the tracks yourself at home??
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Decide what platform floats your boat.
Id suggest pro Tools is the industry standard.
Go to the Avid.com site and look out the training for pro tools of find a certified pro tools training course near you.
Enrol on a 101 course, and then work your way up into Post production specifics etc.
Buy your system and enjoy being free from the restriction of NLE audio restrictions.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Im not in front of my avid now 9and dont use wipes much either) but Id presume the softness is in the effect editor.
have you looked in the effect editor for your transition? 2 small horizontal sliders on a button?
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer