Jules Bowman
Forum Replies Created
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But apple are run by people. Apple are known for producing a closed Eco system to increase profits. That is doing it their way.
As for the rest, you are right, it is a perspective on the whole thing and you don’t know whether the iMovie change was a good or bad thing in terms of a % of people who use it. Neither do apple. You can guess. So can apple. But their doing it again doesn’t prove it was the right thing to do the first time.
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Sure, that’s a perspective. But what I don’t get with all this “FC10′ is great for those without NLE baggage’, is that learning the ‘old’ way wasn’t hard. It is logical. It makes sense in terms of creating a timeline. It makes sense visually. There may be a lot of buttons to figure out over time, but isn’t there with anything that is meant to be used to achieve decent creative output?
I truly don’t buy this ‘FC10 is best for people who don’t have pre-conditioning’. I started with Pinnacle Studio. I had no pre-conditioning. I figured it out in no time at all. It made perfect sense to me. I then ‘upgraded’ to FCS and guess what. I figured out where the extra buttons were and was still perfectly at ease with a really logical way of making a video.
To me this whole ‘FC10 is better for those with no baggage’ argument is just an attempt to intellectualise the fact Apple wanted to do it ‘their way’. Sorry. it’s what they do and that is what they did. They didn’t study people and discern the perfect model for the layman to edit. Please. That’s nonsense. It is a different way of doing things because that is what Apple wanted to do. Be different.
Sure, hiding stuff and defaulting to auto this and auto that is definitely going to help the inexperienced at the beginning, but in the long run if they really want to progress they will still need to un-auto stuff and learn. Start with FC10 or start with PP, you’re still ‘starting’, you are still going to have to learn.
And it still doesn’t detract from my previous point that the skills the OPs clients will learn through PP are more transferrable than those learnt through FC10… though I guess the trouble shooting skills refined whilst having to determine and execute a plethora of work-arounds is something that would aid them in many other things.
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Oooog!???!
Sorry. Ooooh.
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Craig, with all due respect, they changed the way one edits, so they could easily have supported this new version and a re-write of FCP as FCP8 if they wanted to. I don’t think they’d have struggled to find the resources to do it.
A big part of the debate here is they did it their way and actually expected the whole fraternity to go ‘ooog, super awesome’ but instead a fair chunk went WTF?
With regards to the OP, if his clients have no editing previous then having to learn FC10 or having to learn PP is exactly the same, they will have to learn from scratch. I’m really sorry but learning PP is not frigging rocket science. The advantage PP offers over FC10 is that the skills and approach they learn are transferable to other NLEs if that is what hey want to do in their futures. FC10, not so much.
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Bill, I think the problem is that you just ‘dont get’ FCP.
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“What’s more surprising to me, in retrospect, was that we all saw something so similar when we looked at FCP7.”
You see, to me it seems that, limitations aside which could have been fixed over time, FCP was very very very good. My biggest frustration is not having to find a new NLE although that is a drag, but that neither PP6 nor FC10 are as good as editing on FCP. Sure it had flaws and issues but at the same time it had a lot of great sensible little short cuts and features that seem so logical and sensible that them not being in the others almost beggars belief.
Despite being frequently told I’m scared of leaving the safety zone of the past I am not. Watch me for a week in my life you will see I love exploring the new and trying stuff out to see if something is better. But no one will convince me that a track less NLE is a step forward. Even apple have put in things to make it mimic tracks more. I will always, in the back of my mind, consider FC10 but I won’t play with it until I have nothing else to do with my free time because at its core it doesn’t appeal to me. Throw into the mix it is reportedly buggy, that one needs to learn it and all it’s workarounds, that it has poor window layout options, and personally I really dislike the aesthetic of the design and look (too many thumbnails and Nintendo-esque looking design choices for me) then it is still second from bottom on my list of choices, just before iMovie.
PP is far more like my preferred and intuitive way of editing and so I am drawn to it. I really love the flexibility of the windows layouts and they have helped me speed up things. I love that it seems to work with no rendering needed on my machine. But it too falls short when compared with FCP. I don’t know or understand what is under the hood, and don’t need to because I read and when others who know more than me say it is good I believe them. In fact I don’t doubt under the hood FC10 is better than FCP. But PP is missing a lot of the sensible and intuitive short cuts and ways of working that made FCP a true joy. 3rd party plugs also have serious issues at he moment. At least transitions do and unless it sorts that it will never be as good as FCP to me. Not through technical limitations, but through ease and joy of editing. You know, the really important part of the editing process.
For me of the two PP is the one I believe will end up being my replacement. I think no matter what apple fix in FC10 they have thrown the baby out with the bath water and by chasing a certain market, one which is perceived to be broader, they are excluding another market where people who edit simply don’t want to do it their way because the ‘old way’ wasn’t old, but rather very good and far from broken.
I have said before FCP has a halo effect because it was used by Pros. And I mean top end names who the world hears about, not pros as in me and Steve and Craig and bill who earn money but no one knows or cares about (apart from our mums of course). I bought into FCP because of that. And as is mentioned in this thread already that halo effect is going. Some of the market apple have chased are already looking down their noses at FC10 because they chucked the baby out with the bath water and the Pros (definition above) aren’t interested.
A lot of arguments are that FC10 appeals to one stop shops, to a new generation of editors, to the web 2.0 dynamic etc etc, but on the whole people are not as 22nd century as marketing departments need or want them to be. It’s not the £200, £500 or £1000 cost that is the biggest consideration when people who will edit long term and possibly for money make their choice, it is the thousands of hours of their lives they will spend learning and working with that tool and how that tool fits in with both potential collaboration (even if that is getting a job in the future) and perceptions of where that person wants to get to and how they are seen.
What hasn’t changed over the last year is that apple decided to leave the game and start another one.
World series baseball doesn’t include the world.
Cricket does.
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Stop it, you’re making me weep. FCP was flawed but great.
COME BACK!!!!!!!
It’s kind of insane what has happened.
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Not wishing to be contrary but I don’t really see what the issue is with the forum name. To a new person it is a debate forum, from the title, that was sparked by a pivotal moment in NLE history. We can’t change the catalyst for the creation of the thread nor can we delete all the previous threads about it.
And I don’t believe the debate is over. I am a huge disliker of FC10 at the moment and what Apple did to me. I think the trackless format is folly and I find the renaming conventions irritating. I am not convinced I will eventually end up using FC10 but at the same time I am never saying never, that would be stupid. I read and follow this forum because it is informative both in terms of FC10 and NLEs in general, as well as being witty and entertaining too. And for me the debate isn’t over yet because despite how good PP is at the moment, it is not FCP8 just as FC10 isn’t, so for me I still haven’t found a replacement for the enforced move I am going to have to make.
The debate is not finished.
I wonder if these desires to change the title come from FC10 fans or others. My money would say the former.
Plus, why confuse a user base who may occasionally stop by here but not be regulars, by changing the forum name and they not knowing where it is?
Now, Tony, behave this time 🙂
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He was actually trying to order two pints of lager and a packet of pork scratchings down his local. That’s how omnipotent iosx is these days. There is no escape!
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Ha ha. Unlikely Steve, but ta 🙂
When I’m 64 bit
Yesterday
Maxwell’s Silver Hammer (for me and Bill 😉