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i invite discusion: does apple know about these “issues”
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Get one of those hot old dual proc G5s and put the coffee on the box. I thought that’s what it was for.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” DVD
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Just to weigh in here on the in/out logic of FCP – all tape based systems I ever used marked out on the frame past the outpoint, thus did NOT include the frame on screen in the edit. All NLEs I have ever used include the frame onscreen in the clip. No one I know of who didn’t use tape based editing would dream of NOT including the frame onscreen.
As to more keystrokes – I’m sorry – that’s just how you use it. While I was editing on tape, I understood the reason for the fact that I needed to shuttle past the point I wanted in my shot – it was because of the limited logic of the hardware. It did a subtract of the two timecodes to get a duration. If you marked in/out on the same frame, you had the same timecode, so a zero duration. So, they forced you to go past the point you wanted to end the shot because of the mathematics of a timecode based tape machine controller. There’s no reason in a software based NLE to make me move past the point I want in my clip to mark my out. And, to me anyway, the way FCP and Avid perform is totally logical and consistant, Mark In – you get the frame onscreen in the clip. Mark out – wow – the same thing. The frame onscreen is included in the clip.
If someone didn’t have the background of working on a tape based timecode editor, they’d never call for or design a mark in/out system that didn’t include the onscreen frame in the clip (like “the old days”). And these days, I have to think that us old folk that started back in the heyday of tape based editing are in the minority of NLE users. The outcry amongst users that would occur if FCP suddenly started working like the old tape based systems means this will never happen.
Patrick
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jeremy et al
after spending a restful night sleeping and doing NOn video things, i have returned
I see now why its imprtant to be able to inclusde that extra frame. when you are scrolling through a peice of film frame by frame, or a video clip frame bt frame its necessary to mark out and include the frame you are seeing
i could go on and on about how one style of editing differ from the other (marking on the fly versus joggin frame by frame) but enough has been said
How about this:
1. put in a preference to include or exclude the visible frame when you mark out AND
2. Make the “/” key work in the viewer! that way you can cut your shots up just like film! the slash key is called make edit, so make edit in the viewer! i mean if you think about it, thats really the difference, in video when you mark in and out you parenthesize, in film there is no mark in or mark out there is only “cut here”
see what a good noghts sleep can do!
bee eph
Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc. -
Yeah, I’ll say time remap is a pain too. If nothing else (I like the previous suggestions better) can it work like an overwrite instead of an insert (where it pushes everything down)? At least then I can drag it up to an empty video track (instead of the end of the timeline) do the time change and then trim it to fit the space in my timeline.
My other pet peeve is that the edit to tape window always opens in the upper right corner of your monitors. Doesn’t matter where you move it to, how you save custom window set ups etc. I wish it would open center screen (or wherever I move it to). OK, I know that’s trivial, but it annoys me.
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Like I said, the in.out point matter is one of presonal prefernce. Whether you come from film, tape to tape, or NLEs you can’t have everything. On to another matter.
You know what really makes mad, when I’m logging and I type something in the log notes, then I keep watching footage and I want to add something, I click in the log notes field so everything is highlighted, then I click again to make sure that the cursor is at the end of the text WITH NOTHING HIGHLIGHTED, I begin to type and suddenly all of the text gets erased with the text I have just entered. This absolutely sucks. The only around it is to click, then pause, then click again, then arrow back and forth a few times to make sure that I don’t write over what I already typed. This goes for the log notes field, Description field, any field in the log & cap window.
😀 We are off to a beautiful start already today!
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“The outcry amongst users that would occur if FCP suddenly started working like the old tape based systems means this will never happen.”
While this may be true, it doesn’t mean it’s correct, or consistent. My understanding of the logic behind the Out Point being beyond the edit has to do with what happens on a timeline; The Out Point IS the In Point of the next event! When perfoming edits I usually want to protect what’s already on the timeline, so the TL Out Point is the first frame I don’t want to overwrite and IS the first frame of the next event. I know this sounds like tape editing, but I think the logic holds regardless of medium. That’s why I do inserts and over-writes rather than cutting everything with open-ended over-writes. Might as well cut tape-to-tape if you’re going to work like that.[1] Hmmm, is it Apples mis-understanding of this that explains why I’ve never heard of anyone doing a successful insert edit into a tape from FCP? discreet edit* got this right, BTW.
Wouldn’t you find it a little annoying if everytime you did an insert in your word-processor it overwrote the first character of the next word?
[1] I think the lack of timeline protection may be what frustrates many about FCP’s implementation of slow motion, though as mentioned “Fit-To-Fill” is a solution. Still requires one to do math though, if you want to achieve a specific rate and protect the work you’ve already done.
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"The outcry amongst users that would occur if FCP suddenly started working like the old tape based systems means this will never happen."
While this may be true, it doesn't mean it's correct, or consistent
Well, it kinda does. The software is intended to be used. If it behaves one way – consistently and internally logically, to change it for no arguably good reason would be detrimental to the thousands of users of the product.
Your understanding of the “Outpoint” aside, FCP and Avid (thus most of the market) expect that when you press in or out, the frame onscreen will be part of the clip.
Patrick
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At least then I can drag it up to an empty video track (instead of the end of the timeline) do the time change and then trim it to fit the space in my timeline.
You can drag it to an empty video track, then lock all but that track (option-click on that track’s lock button), then do your business, trim the clip as needed, then option-click on the lock to open the other tracks back up and drag your speed-affected clip into place…
Patrick
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Mark the area that you want to put in the slomo. If it’s one shot it’s easy hit the X key. Put the playhead at the beginning of the shot. Press Cmd-Opt-F to match frame to a new piece of media with the same frame. Mark the In point. Do your speed change and overwrite into the sequence. It takes a lot longer to explain it and write it than it does to do it.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” DVD
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For those who like how Avid does speed changes- which is a system where you have to create “Motion Clips” that are speed changed clips that you can then cut into your timeline – you can do the same in FCP.
Right/ctrl-click on a master clip. Select Duplicate as New Master Clip. Name the clip what you want (say something like “MyCLip 50%). Double click on it to load it into the viewer. Type cmd-J. Set your speed – say 50%. You’ve just created your own “Avid Style” Motion Clip. Now you can cut that anywhere you want in your timeline. Happy?
Patrick
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