[Steven Gonzales]

This might be helpful:

https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/audio_essentials_fcp_4.html

[Steven Gonzales]

Can you open up any other project?

[Steven Gonzales]

It’s great to know that viewing 24 PAL can be done on a 25 PAL display.

The reason some people suggest exporting the sync clips is because earlier versions of Final Cut would lose sync between video and audio when they were from separate sources. I was doing a feature in FCP 3, and the audio would slip several frames behind the video while viewing a long sequence, until I paused and recontinued, and then they would play in sync again.

I believe your method would also work if you sync within a sequence, link the audio and video, and then drag that linked clip back to the browser creating a “merge clip”, and using that as an edit source.

However, I worked with such “sync sequences” for my editing source in the first FCP to Film project in 1999, and this method worked fine. I recall that to retain the separate audio timecode, I had to recut all the audio into the final reels, but I believe that is because I actually cut the sync sequences into the reels, instead of copy and paste as you describe. Luckily, things have improved much since then.

Thanks for the clear explanation of PAL workflow.

[Steven Gonzales]

You need to know how the telecine was done, how you will be dealing with sound (was it synced in telecine, or do you have to sync it?), what timebase you will edit with, and how you are going to finish before you start working — your experience will be more pleasant. Also, I’m assuming that the original camera speed was 24 fps.

I haven’t worked with PAL, but I believe there are two ways that the telecine can be done. One is to transfer the 24 fps of film to the 25 fps of video on a one to one frame basis, which speeds up the action slightly (called 24@25 method). The other is by adding two extra fields in each second, which is called 24&1 method.

So first, you should find out how the telecine was done. If it was done the 24@25 method, you can either choose to work speeded up by 4%, or you can conform the 25 fps videos you capture to 24 fps quicktimes using Cinema Tools conform feature (which essentially changes the time base in the quicktime file, leaving the frames the same.) This reverts the footage back to 24 fps, and so syncing with sound can be done with no adjustment.

If the telecine was done with the 24&1 method, you have an extra field every 12th frame, but sound will sync because the time period is the same as the original. Then you would work in 25 frames.

This all matter because Cinema Tools is a database, and the way the database is set up depends on your telecine. The first options you have when creating the database are to set the database timebases.

After that, the steps basically are: Flex file (which has the timecode to keycode relationship) is brought in to the Cinema Tools database. Check carefully to make sure everything look correct (no duplicate take names, etc). Then export this information as a Final Cut Pro batch list.

Bring the Final Cut Pro batch list in to Final Cut Pro and batch capture the source clips. Then process them (conform) in Cinema Tools if that is your choice.

When you have the clips you will finally use in final cut (either the original capture, or the altered conformed clips), then you go into Cinema Tools, and connect (link) each record in the database with each of those quicktimes that you are going to edit with.

Then you edit. When it is time for a cutlist, you export a cutlist from Final Cut. This process will ask you “which Cinema Tools database”? You point to the database. Now Final Cut tells Cinema Tools “here’s the quicktime, and here’s the frames that were used” and Cinema Tools says “hey, I know about that quicktime, because one of my database records is linked to it. Those frames that were used should be assigned these keycodes, based on what frame numbers they are, and what keycodes I have in my data records for that range of frames.”

There are a few other little things, but that’s the broad overview.

[Steven Gonzales]

I think to do a comparison of Avid and FCP for Feature Films would require a point/counterpoint by an expert in each system.

I’ve recently seen a quote in an Avid press release by an editor friend of mine, saying that Avid is much more stable than Final Cut.

This was the same editor that that I rescued when he lost all his audio temporarily on an Avid Media Composer project because he rebuilt his media database — while his project was open!

For anyone interested in Feature Films and Final Cut, I recommend the October 2005 LAFCPUG DVD featuring Walter Murch and Sean Cullen talking about editing Jarhead. https://www.intelligentassistance.com/shop/lafcpug.html

The now slightly dated “Behind the Seen: How Walter Murch Edited Cold Mountain Using Apple’s Final Cut Pro and What This Means for Cinema” is also illuminating.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0735714266/ref=sr_11_1/002-9692492-3969643?ie=UTF8

[Steven Gonzales]

I thought Automatic Duck did not support 24fps. Here’s from their web page:

https://www.automaticduck.com/products/pefcp/

What Avid systems are “Supported”?

30i and 25i projects in Meridien-based Avid systems: Symphony, Media Composer (including Adrenaline), Xpress, Xpress Pro and Xpress DV
DS is not officially supported, but we do have users taking sequences into DS, sometimes using a Media Composer as an intermediate step.
ABVB-based systems are not supported.
24fps is not supported because we do not convert timecodes (necessary for Avids since they don’t digitize at 24fps)

[Steven Gonzales]

You can try exporting an EDL from your 29.97 timeline, bring it to Cinema Tools, under the File Menu select Export, under the sub-menu select Converted EDL then 24 from 30.

Bring you new EDL in to Final Cut to create a sequence, then batch recapture the sequence. If the timecodes of the offline corresponded properly, you should have minor cleanup.

[Steven Gonzales]

Drop frame is a type of timecode which skips frame numbers to keep the video timecode consistent with the clock on the wall.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with lip sync.

[Steven Gonzales]

Can you give a little more information?

What frame rate was the film shot? 24?

Was the telecine done at 24 + 1 to get 25 PAL, instead of frame to frame?

What settings did you use when you set up the Cinema Tools database, especially what were the Video TC Rate and the TK (telecine) speed?

What timebase are your sequences? Are you editing at 24 fps PAL?

Do you have the ability to recapture the original tapes?

[Steven Gonzales]

I can’t seem to create the problem.

Here’s a link about match frame, so maybe this will help you:

https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/matchframe_balis.html