[Robin S. kurz]

[Oliver Peters] “My original post, mentioning 20-25%, was factoring in the MacPro”

Well, factoring in just it’s “real” predecessor seems as the only “real” relevant yardstick. But even once the new Mac Pro comes out I’d say factoring in the ’13 Mac Pro (even if to the huge advantage of the ’19 Mac Pro, no doubt) would be rather silly, even though I’m sure everyone is going to “logically” do it.

On the other hand I guess one could say that the grim, horrible picture everyone seems to want to paint of the ’13 Mac Pro ain’t all they’re cracked up to be either. IOW so much for “outdated even when it was released” if it can still hold it’s own with FIVE year younger hardware. ????

[Oliver Peters] “What are your iMP specs? What are the storage specs?”

10 core, 128GB with local SSD storage. And yes, raw has just barely higher demands on a system than just plain ProRes… which is why it is THE game changer for me. Once everyone has adopted it (especially certain HDMI-out-only cams), it will be yet another serious notch on Apple’s “yeah, sure… we DON’T CARE ABOUT PROS“-belt. But that’s another thread.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

Funny how when I asked “What do you currently need a ‘Mac Pro’ for in the context of this forum and thread that an iMac Pro couldn’t possibly deliver?” all I got was… crickets. Which is why the whole “I’M such a demanding PRO, that a paltry machine with ‘iMac’ in the name couldn’t possibly meet my superior demands!” attitude is just so tiring. But then, again… what is it exactly you are doing for which an iMac Pro couldn’t possibly be enough? Anyone…? … *crickets*…

Oh, and the whole notion that an iMac Pro (or any Mac for that matter) is “pricey“, “too expensive“, “overpriced” etc. is just such a painfully ignorant meme that will surely never die. Can you get the same or better CPU(s) or GPU(s) whilst leaving out everything else for less in a fugly plastic PC box? Sure! Who could possibly deny that? That’s just not what Apple is about, but everything that PCs are about. A patchwork of single components just barely glued together with spit and gum and an endless array of (mostly incompatible) drivers for maximum performance in some singled out, very specific task… for 20 bucks. Hooray. If that’s what floats your boat, great. Then a Mac definitely is not for you. Move along then. Just don’t embarrass yourself by suggesting I or someone else couldn’t possibly be AS PRO as you, just because it objectively suits or even exceeds all of my/our needs (needed bang) for the buck. Even if sans the jejune bragging rights down at the pub. ????

And sorry… but if you put together a PC that actually matches a Mac spec for spec, then, oh gee… you’re not only not saving anything, but you also have just a pile of boxes on a table as a starting point. One to two days later you have yourself a machine. If you’re lucky and really really good that is. And if your time isn’t worth a dime, which seemingly it isn’t for any PC/Hackintosh tinkerer, then you can even almost keep up cost wise. Never mind that the word “warranty” anywhere near the level of something like Apple Care will forever stay a foreign concept for you.

But you don’t believe me, because I’m some indoctrinated, crazed fanboy (the only argument so many here are sadly left with at the end of the day)? Then maybe you’ll believe a team of one of the most popular and hardcore PC fanboys on Youtube that normally have absolutely nothing nice to say about anything Mac or Apple?
https://youtu.be/SONKIJd8xRM?t=185
(TL;DW: jump to 3:05 for the big reveal)

Oops. So much for “Apple tax“. More like Apple tax return.

Mind you that this does not even include the iMac screen, since apparently no 5K HDR screens are even available separately. But even if they were, then I’d venture to guess matters would look even worse for the PC side…

So again, it boils down to nothing else other than: if it’s too expensive (for you) then you just plain DO NOT NEED IT. Period. In which case a rumored Mac Pro is going to change exactly zilch for you, so you can stop pretending and start prepping your super PRO “It’s WAY too expensive for WAY too little performance!” meme for copy/pasting everywhere once it has come out. ????

And no idea how Americans do it, but I for one lease my machines as a business. So the (for me) odd question whether it’ll still be top of the line or upgradable in 4-5 years never even crosses my mind, since I won’t even have had it anymore for over a year by then, but rather whatever came after it. In which case I personally have yet to be horribly disappointed by Apple by the options.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Gabriel Spaulding] “I just found no advantage to using it with the type of media I typically work with.”

Oddly, I figure that kind of stuff out BEFORE I plunk down that kind of cash. Guess I’m weird that way. ????

[Gabriel Spaulding] “and the T2 security chip preventing the install of certain apps.”

Huh? Wha?

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Oliver Peters] “Averaged across the board, the iMP came out 48% faster.”

Which was exactly my point, yes. No clue what that has to do with “attitude“.

I just know that I was just editing various multi cams last week on the iMac Pro, ranging from 4 to 10 cameras of ProRes raw in 6K. Incl. color corrections, some colormasks and a few other effects here and there, without dropping a single frame. Even dipped into an native 8K RED timeline on the side that performed without a hitch set to better performance. Do any of that on a “normal” iMac.

Spoiler: you can’t.

But if that’s not the performance you need, then the iMac Pro isn’t the machine you need either. No shame in that.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

I’m tickled that you actually post that article as (I can only assume) an argument to counter what I said, where it fact only confirms exactly what said. Weird. But I guess I should also have said “taxing AND at least barely optimized” to be clear.

It’s a beast clocking in at near TWICE the speeds at tasks that are not only the solely relevant ones (to me and in the context of this forum), but those that are even optimized enough to count to begin with. Because sorry, but trying to use ADOBE apps as a yardstick for speed on modern app and hardware architecture is just amusing to me. ????

Never mind that it doesn’t even vaguely confirm your claim of “20-25% improvement” either. Odd math looking at your own numbers. Numbers that are in fact noticeably worse than mine btw, for whatever reason.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Oliver Peters] “That argument has been undermined for FCPX by Apple itself, since they have developed touch UI capabilities for the Touchbar on MacBook Pros.”

Nothing that you can do with the TouchBar requires continuous touch, such as shuttling or the likes, which is what the various app try to do, so that hardly compares. And if you just want a button panel full of shortcuts, you can already get that. Just as you can get shuttling apps. Just get one and it’ll take you about 30 secs to figure out it’s useless. Which, again, is why nothing along those lines is going to come from Apple imho. And the fact that zero functionality has been added since it’s inception I’d say pretty much proves that it was meant as little more than a proof of concept (in the context of X that is).

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

Let me just point out that while this may be a dandy move for Adobe (and their bank account), it’s a really DUMB move for students that are not clear on the concept. Why? Because they don’t grasp that their super-duper-special-deal ENDS abruptly the day they leave school. Oops. What’s that? You can’t access your own work? Your own intellectual property? Why sure you can! Just pay us TEN TIMES what you have been until now! Yay.

Suddenly not such a great deal, eh?

Resolve? I doubt it, unless it improves and is adopted A LOT more. Great price tag, sure. Just too bad that you can’t get any video signal IN OR OUT without buying… you got it… BMD hardware. Oops. Not so cheap after all. And honestly… how long can BMD hold that whole model? Who knows? But I find it rather ridiculous when I hear people question FCP’s potential demise when I look at companies such as BMD and Avid and where they stand as a whole.

In contrast: Apple. They have educational licenses for a measly $199 (get discounted iTunes cards and it’s even less).That gets you Final Cut Pro X, Logic Pro X, Motion, Compressor and MainStage. And guess what? FOR LIFE. Absolutely nothing changes once you leave school. Except maybe having to buy a Mac, which the schools will generally already have had anyway.

Guess what my students are opting for?

But to each his own, right? The next few years should be interesting as far as all this goes.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Oliver Peters] “More from NAB 2018 LumaForge”

Sorry if I find the whole thing to be just another manual for “People too Lazy to Learn Motion, but Rather Live with an Exponentially more Tedious and Unnecessarily Convoluted Workflow without Rhyme nor Reason“.

Nothing he’s showing tells you what you’re GAINING by effectively giving up the exponentially higher speed, flexibility and better integration that Motion has with FCP, in particular if given the choice. What he lists in the beginning are just straw men. He argues his use of AE for reasons that he clearly doesn’t even understand (Metrics/Optical), since they are irrelevant in this context. Basically saying “I use it because those other guys do…”… huh?

Sure the exchange amongst Adobe apps is smoother, if that’s what you need, but AI and PS docs most certainly are not an issue with Motion either. Nor does his actual example even have anything to do with that. Never mind the potentially massive amount of additional data and endless potential pitfalls that come with this approach.

For me it’s just like telling people to use the Position tool (only much worse) because they rather pretend that learning something new is asking way too much. This doesn’t actually improve anything for anyone, since he’s not even doing it under the premise of “If you have no other choice…”. It’s just a How-To on perpetuating a gaping and avoidable workflow wound for those that have it or telling others to contract it. How exactly is that helpful?

And no, I’m not talking about situations where you’re required by others to use AE for whatever reason, sent AE projects to use or even in any other context other than FCP X, since that, as I said, is not the point he’s trying to make. He unabashed about purposefully avoiding Motion. Using AE with FCP is just as nonsensical as using Motion with PPro. He’s not saying “Should the situation arrive…”. No, he’s saying “You should do it IN GENERAL”.

In his example (and I’m guessing otherwise as well) he doesn’t even do anything that he couldn’t just as well have done in Motion (which goes for 99% of AE users I know as well btw) and save massive amounts of time and headaches to boot.

Oh well.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Dominic Deacon] “There is no reasoning with these people. Whatever happens is seen through a special lens that puts Apple always in the best possible light.”

He says, whilst essentially doing the polar opposite. That being the whole point, that it works beautifully BOTH WAYS and somehow it’s completely legit when one does it, just not when “those people” do it… as you have demonstrated wonderfully. It’s called freudian projection.

Oldie but goodie.

[Robin S. kurz]

[Tom Sefton] “you can just elastic band them all and move them down the timeline”

You mean like you can “Range Tool” them in FCP and move them down the timeline? Yeah, that’s cool.

[Tom Sefton] “In FCPX you need to manually click on each individual one and move it with a shift click, or right click and delete”

Yeah. Oh wait. No, you don’t. Since that would of course be complete nonsense, right? Which is why you can shift click first and last and move them (without the need for ⇧ btw, since they are automatically contained vertically or horizontally) or hit ⌥⇧⌫ to delete. Go figger.

– RK

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