[Robin S. kurz]

Have you tried hitting ctrl-⌘-1 and closing any open browsers and the inspector?

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[tony west] “… who I’m not sure was really “cheerleading””

Just call it obligatory, preemptive, copy/paste pi**ing on the parade. The NLE or film are ultimately completely irrelevant. It’s to keep us annoying little fanboys at bay and take the wind out of our sails, not because it’s actually happening. ;-D

All those damn whipper-snappers making all that unqualified noise, when they don’t know what is was like back in the day, I tell ya!!

😛
– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Andreas Kiel] “Let’s wait for the book.”

Erm… it’s out. 😉

https://itunes.apple.com/de/book/final-cut-pro-x-pro-workflow/id971472119?l=en&mt=11

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Simon Ubsdell] “But since you wanted to labour the point”

You didn’t actually just write that after a full 17 posts of your own on the subject, did you? 😀

[Simon Ubsdell] “A lot of feature film editing is actually problem solving of one kind or another and it’s experience that makes you better at it. That’s all I’m saying – I’m not sure why this is contentious.”

Maybe it’s simply that you have yet to explain why the obsession with the “feature film” part of it all is relevant? I don’t even know why “feature film” is even explicitly in that sentence, since that applies to ANY editing job imho. What is it in your mind that an editor that has edited any amount of narratives (for all we know very well), couldn’t possibly do when hit with a feature film? Whereby, again, “feature film” purely says something about its *length*, namely longer than 40 minutes. Nothing else. I don’t know of any somehow hugely unusual requirements that would need to be met other than great story-telling abilities (which you obviously couldn’t know if he has or not, experience or not). Aside from maybe needing extremely good organizational skills, which, as we know, the vast majority was already taken care of by the time FCP was even opened. And I don’t see how the amount of money or actor involved is any reflection or gauge of his abilities as an editor.

You yourself said that it’s a huge budget movie with a huge star in it. So either everyone involved was having (as you seem to want to imply) a “let’s gamble with a lot of money and some reputations!”-day (only by virtue of their choice of EDITOR?)… OR… there is a bunch of relevant information that neither you or any of us are privy to at this point. Namely information concerning the editor, his qualifications and/or the production process relating to the editing process, that would make the whole decision a completely sane one with no spectacular or curious undertones. Making the whole topic a classic and text-book mountain and molehill dispute, no?

I’ll personally go with the latter until proven guilty.

Maybe we should all read this first (which I am) and come back afterwards: https://itunes.apple.com/de/book/final-cut-pro-x-pro-workflow/id971472119?l=en&mt=11 🙂

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Oliver Peters] “[Scott Witthaus] “So is it baloney or true? ”

It’s baloney if we are talking about impact on actual Hollywood.”

Not even the least bit baloney. He’s absolutely right from a purely technical POV.

[Oliver Peters] “But… how about AAFs, OMFs, EDLs, change lists, etc.? “

Yes, how about them? His claim was “with a Mac and the App Store” you’re “Hollywood” (which I take to mean you’re at least technically set up to produce a movie that would easily sell/be shown in Hollywood). So which of those CAN’T you cover with the App Store? Spoiler: none. But you know that, so I find that assertion rather disingenuous. Aside from the fact that I didn’t see anything in Focus’ list of apps that aren’t on the App Store, other than maybe LivePlay and a filter, so there you go. Scott is clearly correct.

And throwing NUKE of all things into the mix is the only thing “baloney”, since that is purely VFX and far from being some sort of requirement for making a “Hollywood” movie. But even then, it’s clearly only a matter of time before FUSION shows up in the App Store. Then even that is covered.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Michael Gissing] “That sort of motherhood statement is marketing and doesn’t stand a moment of scrutiny. An NLE has no impact on writing, casting, set design, costume, makeup etc. “

You’re not seriously suggesting that that is anywhere near what he meant to say with that, right??

😀

And I have yet to see a single project, let alone FEATURE, where the director didn’t play an active and integral part in the editing process. Whether he actually meant in the sense that he actually wanted to (or did) do it himself no one here can know and would be (as with certain other things here) pure conjecture. But even if he did e.g. do rough cuts… erm, so? Big… whoop…

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Andy Neil] “Again, you’re going off the reservation with your assumptions.”

… and conjecture, and unsubstantiated claims, and odd obsession with IMDB as the holy grail and only true measure of anyone’s abilities. 🙂

[Andy Neil] “Who are you talking to that says anything of the sort about FCPX? Pretty much every single person on this forum and others who you would classify as FCPX enthusiasts, are constantly talking about how easy it is to use.”

I, too, have never once heard anything else either. The only people that I have heard suggest anything similar were in fact those who haven’t seen more of X than maybe some screenshots, but certainly never actually used it. I also have a few years of teaching X (and another 5 years teaching 7 before that) under my belt at two different schools here that use both X and PPro. The speed that the students get up and running on X and have their first cut out is unparalleled. Primarily because its complexity is completely hidden from sight until needed (IF needed).

Not some comparatively intimidating, constantly in-your-face barrage of tabs tabs tabs hiding behind each other in an excessively button-riddled, cluttered, patchwork GUI. Something I also hear from every single trainer I know, of which there are many, spread across 6 countries and two continents in the same or a similar environment. To say that PPro is anywhere near as comprehensible, especially for anyone with no or little experience editing, is utterly ludicrous imho. I have only seen that happen when the person teaching X simply did not know the first thing about X or were just plain inept as a teacher.

[Andy Neil] “Wow, you must really have something against this editor. He went from inexperienced in film, to novice, to assistant editor as your replies have continued.”

I noticed that, too. :-))))

[Andy Neil] “You’re so shocked that experience has taken a backseat in the editing workflow for this film, but you seem to have no care for skill or talent or any of the other things that make an editor. Credits are the only measure by which you seem to judge Jan’s abilities. “

Apply that to directors and never mind that if everyone were actually to go by IMDB as a measure for anything, then we wouldn’t have a huge list of features to enjoy. Such as ones from Chris Nolan, Ben Affleck, George Clooney or even Alejandro González Iñárritu. How DARE someone give them their first break based on anything… just not IMDB. Tsk tsk… 😉

I guess companies like RED and ARRI really lucked out then, too. But I guess there were a plethora of Epic and Alexa experienced operators lined up around the block before the first features were shot with them? Exact same difference.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Oliver Peters] “It’s equally true that others try it and want to throw the computer against the wall.”

So basically the exact same reaction *I* would have, if I sat down at the most recent incarnation of say AVID for the first time in about 8 years. No surprise there.

And from 4 years experience on the subject, I think I can easily say that 99 out 100 times that is purely due to the fact that a) that person didn’t even learn the most basic basics of how things work/are different beforehand and/or b) tried using it like whatever other NLE they have been using, unwilling to rethink or give into even the most basic conceptual differences. Not because they wouldn’t have *factually* been unable to edit anything they wanted to with it. Because, you know, they’re the pros and know the best possible way to edit and ain’t havin’ APPLE tell them nuttin’. If Apple ain’t doin’ it THEIR way, then it’s the highway… yadda yadda yadda… 😉

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Simon Ubsdell] “[Robin S. Kurz] “So you’ve seen them? Or you know that no one with skill in that area put them together? Because otherwise those seem like a lot of fairly random presumptions, no?”

“The directors were happy enough with the animated opening credits — created by editors using the standard text tool in Final Cut Pro X — that they decided to use them in the final movie, which is extremely rare for a high-production feature film.””

Brilliant. No clue how that is an answer to the question. Since that obviously in itself says absolutely nothing about the quality, good or bad, of the actual titles, which you clearly are decreeing as most likely unacceptable, sight unseen. Nor does it say anything about the person’s (though it’s plural) qualifications in term of design etc. So I guess you’re simply dodging the questions, for whatever reason. Oh well.

Whatever. I for one will decide once I actually see the movie. If I even care. 😀

[Simon Ubsdell] “Is the convenience of the software more important than the experience of the editor as this decision clearly implies?”

Again, pure conjecture. But yeah, maybe the “came in on time and under budget” was actually another driving factor. And they clearly thought X could give them that, too. Aside from not seeing, outside of maybe LENGTH, which horrendously unique tasks Focus could have required above and beyond what something like Curb Your Enthusiasm would have needed when it comes to plain EDITING. We’re not talking celluloid or telecine here.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

[Neil Goodman] “Has anyone seen the movie? Is it good? Is the editing good?
Thats really what it boils down to me. “

Only that’s not what this is about. It’s about whether or not an NLE—in this case FCP X, with Gone Girl it was PPro, etc.—is a viable candidate for feature film production at the Hollywood level. The quality of the editing or even of the movie itself is completely irrelevant in this context. Unless of course you want to tell me that every crap feature film cut with Avid (of which there are of course exponentially more at this point than have been cut with FCP X) was Avid’s fault? 🙂

Although feature film work per se is irrelevant to an easy 98% of the market, yes, it goes by the trickle-down logic. Along the lines of “If it’s good enough for them, it must be fine for me!”. In which case it’s very relevant for all users since it makes for far less tedious discussions with certain folk (and clients). 😉

– RK

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