Robert Broussard
Forum Replies Created
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[Ramona Howard] “I must be reading the post entirely wrong….
“Yes, it’s now obvious that you have. Gosh, I carefully worded my posts to avoid any confusion; yet, to no avail…. ouch!
[Ramona Howard] “It’s not the $3k for just the backup unit, that’s reasonable, it’s everything else you expect to get out of it for that price.
Just remember if you have 1TB of data that needs backing up, you need more than 1TB to do it in Raid, throw in the fact you want to possibly hot swap these out to double as an archival solution and all with using a cheap controller. Good luck with that. There is a slew of implications you may not be considering with that scenario. “
Ramona, you missed my point entirely. As I mentioned, I plan to use a dedicated multi-drive enclosure (sans RAID) specifically and exclusively for backup/archive. Also, I plan to use up to 6 TB of storage to give me an on-site redundancy and off-site backups. Also, I never intended, implied or, stated that I wanted to use a cheap controller. In fact, I mentioned controllers from two companies that Bob considers “terrific products”. Where are you getting this El-Cheapo-Frys-Mentality from?
[Ramona Howard] “Bob and I share the same passion when someone tackles an important issue (such as this one) with budget first and answers to a real solution second. First ask what solutions do it already and work your way down, you will find it easier to get the answers you need and or find out how difficult it may be to build your own, if you can get the answers to do it. “
Ramona, I have never: mentioned, implied, or stated that budget was first. Actually, I started by presenting the situation and asking for a recommended solution–independent of budget. Then, Bob wanted to know “how much money [I] would like to spend… So, I speculated about the possibilities… thought out loud so he could understand my quest for a great solution… I gave some numbers and showed the thought process and the calculations…. clearly this possible solution was just to plug some possible numbers in and to answer Bob’s question. Also, this should have clarified (if there had been any doubts) that I wanted to identify a great solution and/or strategy independent of the costs.
[Ramona Howard] “The Frys comment comes into play because it appears your determined to Frankenstein a solution together because it seems so easy to do with off the shelf components…
Ramona, I’ve articulated my situation and possible solutions very clearly. What did I say that you interpret as my being determined to, “Frankenstein a solution together because it seems so easy to do with off the shelf components…”???
Thanks,
Robert
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[Ramona Howard] ” I can guarantee you it won’t be at the Frys price point. To do this in a professional manner one can not use $1.99 hard drives and $3.00 controllers, that would be suicide. Some things you just should not cut corners on. “
Ramona, where did you get the idea that I wanted “the Frys price point”? If you look at my previous posts, you will understand my position. I think my my desire to spend about $3,000 to backup 1 TB of data is bordering on over-kill; yet, this data is important to me. Why $3k, because of budget or a predetermined desire to spend that amount? NO! It’s $3k because one of the high-quality manufacturers seem to have an elegant solution. It’s the product with the industry merit that gets my attention and my money.
So, forget about the cheapest solution–I’ve never taken the cheapest or easiest route.
Thanks,
Robert
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[Bob Zelin] “REPLY – I will respond below, but all I can say is GOOD LUCK. An empty port multipler 5 bay box from a good company is around $500, and a good eSATA card is about $289 – this is without drives.”
Good Luck? As it happens my idea for a 5-bay PM enclosure and SATA card are in line with your recommendations–right?
[Bob Zelin] “So if you find some cheapo mail order stuff, I wish you luck with it. The prices I listed are for companies like Sonnet, Cal Digit, Firmtek, Dulce, Maxx Digital, etc. “
Bob, I’ve never suggested that I was trying to avoid a quality solution–that’s why I’ve sought your advice. As you can see from my previous posts, I’m looking at quality manufacturers like: FirmTek and Sonnet, etc… I don’t want the “cheapo mail order stuff”. Where did you get that idea?
[Bob Zelin] “REPLY – what are you talking about, nothing includes 2 SATA cards. And a RAID 5 SAS/SATA card is expensive, from any of the companies. “
The Firmtek and the Sonnet hardware mentioned are both bundled with their own PCIe card… I mentioned this only to clarify; yet, this only seemed to have increased the confusion. I would hope that one card could service two external enclosures–yes? Is their a RAID 5 card (or other recommended hardware raid controller) that can also service my backup/archive enclosure? Or, would you use two cards?
[Bob Zelin] “REPLY –
your decision will be based solely on how much (or how little) you want to spend. I have no suggestions for you. If labor is no big deal to you, buy individual 1TB SATA drives, stick them in your MAC pro, without buying anything else, and yank them out when you fill them up. This is the cheapest solution. “Bob, as you know, I’m seeking the best solution for me which will certainly NOT be the cheapest. Even if I wanted to spend $10,000 the best solution for backup might be implemented for less than $3,000–so, I don’t agree with the comment, “your decision will be based solely on how much (or how little) you want to spend”–that’s crazy talk. 🙂
[Bob Zelin] “This post reflects most of my “smart ass comments” – as the usual question is (no matter what the actual subject) – WHAT IS THE LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY I CAN SPEND – do you hear this Ramona ????? “
Well I knew not to go to you or any other professional, with what’s the LEAST I CAN SPEND. Yet, I think it makes perfect sense to identify a solution that is effective and that is not more expensive than it has to be. For example, I need to address my current needs–not those too far into the future– because all of this stuff will be antiquated in 2-3 years anyway–right?
Bob, you asked my how much I wanted to spend and I took my time giving you a detailed answer. I think I’ve articulated my needs very clearly. If you have some solid advice on this matter, I would love to hear it.
What do you recommend to satisfy my backup and/or archival need? What are your thoughts about the new tray-less enclosures?
What media drive array? Can SD media (and/or Aperture Libraries) benefit from the speed of a RAID intended for HD? If I don’t need the speed, what level of protection do you recommend for important assets such as photos and videos and music, etc? Is RAID 3 okay or do you recommend going with RAID 5? based on my needs as described in this post and the ones before this, does a particular external RAID enclosure come to mind? I need at least 1 TB of useable space for now.
Thanks,
Robert
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[Bob Zelin] “I am not going to answer any more of your questions until you tell me how much money you would like to spend on this product.
“Bob, okay, let me think out loud here… On the backup portion, It might be something like this:
$700 External 5-bay PM enclosure w/eSATA card. Something like: <https://firmtek.stores.yahoo.net/sata5pm2se4.html>
$1560 Hitachi 1GB Drives (6). Two backup sets of two drives each with at least one set (2 drives) off-site. Or, I could use my existing 500GB drives from my Mac Pro and replace with 1TB drives… I would have one bay on the enclosure not part of the backup sets… Or, with 500GB drives we could start with $960 (6 * 160) worth of media.
$40 Extra Trays (2)
$40 Padded carrying cases for the off-site drives…
$40 Misc.
So, for the backup alone we are looking at about $2,380 (6TB) or $1,780 with 3TBs of backup storage.
Now, using a hardware RAID-5 capable box like a 2TB Sonnet Fusion (D400RAID) that will be another $3,000 or so. <https://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusiond400raid.html>
Now, these prices include two SATA cards…. I would hope to use just one. Also, if I wanted to get by cheaply, I don’t absolutely need the RAID 5 media enclosure… I could use my internal Mac Pro drives. Right now I NEED backup. And, the backup could be cheaper too…. I could get a one or two bay enclosure. I wanted 4 so that I would not have to fool with the backup as much by having two large backup sets online at all times which should allow me to go a full week without having to swap drives.
With this strategy, I will spend roughly $1,700 to $2,300 on backup (which could be much less in a pinch) and another few thousand (say about $2,700) on a protected, RAID-5, SAS (?) media drive… So, I could easily spend $5k with this approach. As you’ve cautioned, I don’t want to over-buy in any one area. Some of what I want is a luxury and some of it–such as it pertains to off-site backups–is not something that can be avoided.
Anyway, I appreciate your taking the time to comment.
Thanks,
Robert
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Bob,
Many of the multi-bay external enclosures are designed for RAID setups; however my desire for a multi-bay enclosure for backup/archive may never be setup for RAID functionality (although the flexibility of different ports and the ability to raid is a plus). Does a particular enclosure standout as a backup archival device? Do you like any of the tray-less enclosures?
If I can afford the time to restore a backup if a single drive failed, is there a need to have a protected (Raid5) raid? I guess you are protected by some failures up to the minute–meaning that last night’s backup may be several hours old and that could make a difference. If you are just doing say DV–does it help to have a drive setup that’s much faster than it needs to be? For example, Biscardi’s favorite RAID system right now is sweet but over-kill for my immediate needs…. but if I had that, would basic things like: Aperture library usage and FCP with uncompressed SD and lighter uses benefit from this extravagance?
I guess I could use independent drives in my Mac Pro (via software or hardware raid) and use removable hard drives (via an external enclosure) for local and off-site backup–but I see the benefits of the external RAID… Okay, now I can see having the external RAID enclosure and the backup/archival enclosure.
Let’s suppose that we use eSATA or SAS to connect this enclosure to the MacPro, I assume that we’ll want to use a single card that can service both a great RAID solution and the backup/archival enclosure. Let’s assume for the moment that FireWire is not available on the backup enclosure or that you wanted the SATA speed. Does a particular pair of enclosures standout where one is the backup for the RAID and other machines and the other is a RAID where all of your most important files are located?
Come to think of it, do you not use a raid protected setup for non-media files…? Not for the performance but for the added protection? Just a thought.
Thanks,
Robert
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[walter biscardi] “The Kona 3 gives you digital inputs and some analog outputs. If you have an analog deck or an HDV deck, you will need something like the AJA HD10AVA converter to convert a component signal to SDI with embedded audio to feed the Kona 3.”
Walter, if you have and IO (the full or standard version) can you take analog in and then go out SDI to the Kona card? If so, this would be a valid option for SD–yes?
Thanks,
Robert
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Many thanks, I will look into this recommendation.
Robert
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[Ben Holmes] “All DVD material is pretty poor really, especially footage derived from a camcorder. Those Hollywood DVD encodes really are an exercise in engineering excellence”
Yes, good points guys…
BTW: I played this DVD on another system and it looked noticeably better. As I look back I think it was a better DVD player that was connected via component cables instead of composite connection. Also, this second viewing could have been affected by the display… maybe it was not accurate; but it looked better.
So, how do we get the Hollywood results–is it all in the encode?
Thanks,
Robert
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[walter biscardi] “www.markertek.com they have everything and they also make custom cables, patch panels and wall plates.”
I’ve heard that before… my impression was that they were more discount and box-moving oriented as opposed to quality driven. Okay, I will give them a chance.
Thanks,
Robert