[Reko Tomo]

Hi Richard,

I’m very sorry for the late reply and sorry also as I can not understand your instruction.

you wrote :
What is your original media? HD or SD?

My original media is HD.
They are mts files came from camcorder.
1920x1080i (H264).

Thank you Richard.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Richard,

I’ve tried your suggestion to import the proxy clips from Adobe Media Browser. After do the editing (cut/join/transition) in the PAL-DV (SD) timeline, I make all this proxy clips offline then save&close the project.

Make a new HD project, import that SD project.
Then do the “link media” to the original one, and again I have to link the media one by one, because of the different extension (the proxy is mov, the original is m2ts).

you wrote :
Right Click a piece of media from the project window in premiere and choose “Make a sequence from the clip.”

My CS3 doesn’t have that option :(.

Anyway, thank you once again of your advice.

regards.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your advice.
Currently I’m out of town, but soon I’m home I will try your suggestion and let you know about it.

Thank you once again and I’m sorry for my late reply.

regards.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Ann,

Thank you for your info and respond.
Yes, you are right if exporting from CS3 – the available codec is cineform (v8.6.3) which in config setting has the option : low/medium/high/higher HD and Filmscan 1/2.

Since I don’t know the ffmpeg command line for exporting the mts file to cineform codec, I use the command which I found in the internet

-vcodec prores -profile:v 1
where profile value 1 is ProRes(LT), value 3 is ProRes(HQ).

For some reason, I don’t know why I can not open the GoPro Studio software in my XP SP2, but it seems their codec installed automatically in my computer once I install the software.

Thank you.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Jeff,

Editing the native footage (avchd/mts file from my handycam) is laggy in CS3 timeline.

As I tested again last night for the H264 codec, the result quite surprising me as I think it almost the same quality with either the ProRes Source or HDV Source after following again your method to see the differences. But I’m not patience enough for the rendering time – and also I think my old computer is not “strong” enough to render 1 hour video duration in the timeline.

Yes, before I usually convert the mts files to HDV (1440×1080) than do the editing in CS3 with this HDV clips – then export to HDV again.

A few days ago I downloaded the free ProRes codec from the internet (GoPro Studio) to see if ProRes can have a better quality result for the HDV final output. That’s why I make the master file in HDV and ProRes for comparison – do the test to get an idea which final export give the “best” quality between those two.

So as you suggest, I think for the time being I’ll stick with HDV source for HDV output. (Maybe later if I have money I will upgrade my computer, do with the original mts file, edit then export to H264 BluRay as you suggested :)).

BTW, I notice that using ProRes 720×576 from mts file has a better quality for DVD format compare with HDV to DVD. The rendering time is also faster. I wonder why 720×576 ProRes to DVD is better quality than 1440×1080 HDV to DVD ?

Thank you very much, Jeff.

regards.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Jeff,

Wowww… thank you… thank you very much, Jeff.
I follow your advice and YES, I see the quality difference :).

Below is the result from my test.
(There is no Effect and Filter. It’s just plain/untouched)

1.
Output Mpeg2 BluRay (file-A and file-B)
A : Source from HDV 1440×1080
B : Source from ProRes 1920×1080
Compare : HDV slightly better than ProRes

2.
Output HDV (file-C and file-D)
C : Source from HDV 1440×1080
D : Source from ProRes 1920×1080
Compare : HDV slightly better than ProRes

3.
E. Output Mpeg2 BluRay – Source HDV
F. Output HDV – Source HDV (smart render)
Compare : HDV format output is slightly better.

4.
Output H264 BluRay (file G and file H)
G : Source from HDV 1440×1080
F : Source from ProRes 1920×1080
Compare : SAME quality

5.
Output Mpeg2 BluRay
H : Source from ProRes 1920×1080
F : Source from ProRes 1440×1080
Compare : SAME quality

Conclusion :
– H264 BluRay output quality is slightly better than Mpeg2 BluRay output, but the render setting for 10 sec clip took 120 sec ! Drove me insane 🙂

– Mpeg2 BluRay output from HDV source is slightly better than ProRes source.

– HDV output from HDV source is slightly better than ProRes source (maybe because of the smart rendering).

– HDV output from HDV source is slightly better than Mpeg2 BluRay output from the same HDV source (maybe because of the smart rendering)

To me, HDV format source “win” for the untouched timeline clip :).

Maybe Jeff can help me for a few questions ?

1. It seems there is no difference at all between 1920×1080 vs 1440×1080 video ? (My PC is connected to 42 inch LED TV).

2. Do you know why HDV 1440×1080 source has slightly better quality than ProRes 1920×1080 source when encoded to either HDV format or Mpeg2 BluRay format ?

I wonder about this, because I see a noticeable difference when I play and compare the ProRes source vs HDV source.

3. What final-output format that can give a better result from ProRes source compare the HDV source ? (I mean, the output is not the same ProRes codec again or uncompressed AVI file :)). Maybe Mp4 ? Mov ?

Once again, thank you very much for your help, Jeff.
I really appreciate it and you made my day.

regards.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Ann,

I’m very sorry for the confusion.

From my first post, the Media Info is a converted file using ffmpeg from AVCHD. In ffmpeg I reduce to 1440 – hoping to match the CS3 HDV 1080i30 (60i) project setting.

Later I’ve found from the internet that HDV compliant is 50/60i not 50/60p.

In my second post, i take a new shoot (with another camera) as I posted the Media Info of the AVCHD file. Then using ffmpeg I convert this AVCHD file to mpeg2 (not HDV) without reducing to 1440.

My CS3 can not open AVCHD file, that’s why I need to convert it first to mpeg2 with ffmpeg.

Before, I’m used to shot in 50/60i mode from my either camera. Then I convert this 50/60i AVCHD file using ffmpeg to HDV 1440×1080 25fps interlaced. CS3 accept this HDV file without thin red line in the timeline window after I drop this file into the HDV 1080i25 (25i) project setting timeline.

My problem appear when I shot in 50/60p mode, because :
1. I’m not so sure to what kind of mpeg2 should I convert in ffmpeg, stay progressive (50p) ? or interlace ?

2. The question posted here is after I decided to convert as progressive mpeg2. Then left me a question :
a. what is the appropriate CS3 project setting for this progressive mpeg2 file ?

Ann told me to use HDV 1080p.
What happen the rest, I’ve explained it in my second post.

I’m sorry for causing you the trouble and confusing sentences of my English.

Thank you for your kind respond.

regards.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Ann… many thanks for your respond.

Today I shot a new sample from Sony Nex-7.

original AVCHD file from camcorder shot in 50p mode info :
Video
ID : 256 (0x100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=12
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 9s 580ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 25.6 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 26.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.247
Stream size : 29.2 MiB (95%)

Using ffmpeg, convert to mpeg2 with command line :
for %%a in ("*.mts") do ffmpeg -i %%a -vcodec mpeg2video -qscale 3 -qmin 1 -intra -an -f mpegts %%~na.mpg

resulting mpeg2 file :
Video
ID : 256 (0x100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP : No
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : N=1
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 9s 580ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 35.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.338
Stream size : 40.0 MiB (95%)

Put the converted file to CS 3 HDV 1080p25 project setting.
File properties from CS3 project window :
Type: MPEG Movie
File Size: 42.1 MB
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Pixel Depth: 1920
Frame Rate: 50.00
Total Duration: 00:00:09:13
Average Data Rate: 4.4 MB / second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0

A. Put the footage into the timeline (it show red thin line).
When playback in CS3 monitor, it plays choppy – duration is correct.

B. So I interpret footage : “assume this frame rate 25 fps”
Put the footage back into the timeline, now the duration is double.
Playback still choppy (but slower) and thin red line still there 🙁

Export to mpeg2 HDTV 1080p 25, then I change the fps to 50 in AME video setting.
Either from step A or B, CS3 complain :
“invalid combination of framesize/framerate/profile/level. Please recheck the settings and try again”.

Export to mpeg2 HDTV 1080p 25, nothing change
From point-A : Encoded file plays oke, correct duration and not choppy but Media Player shows 5 second duration when after it reach 5 sec, the movie still play the rest.
From point-B : Encoded file plays slow, and Media Player still show wrong duration.

I have my headache :).
What did I do wrong, friend ?

Btw, Ann wrote : You may need to interprete the footage to progressive
I’m sorry as I don’t know how to do that in CS3.

Thanks once again for your kind reply, Ann.

regards.

[Reko Tomo]

Hi Ann…

I’m sorry for the delay.
Thank you very much for your respond and correction.

ffmpeg command :
for %%a in ("*.mts") do ffmpeg -i %%a -vcodec huffyuv -s 720x576 -aspect 16:9 -acodec pcm_s16le %%~na.avi

Here is the spec of the generated AVI file :

Video
ID : 0
Format : Huffman
Codec ID : HFYU
Duration : 48s 960ms
Bit rate : 87.2 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 8.407
Stream size : 509 MiB (98%)

When I put the file in Premiere Project with 16:9 setting, Premiere still “thinking” that this generated file is 4:3 … not 16:9.

I put the file to the timeline, and the monitor show the image with a black bar on the left and right side.

So I did this :

The monitor now show the image correctly,
BUT – the red thin line on the timeline still there :(.

What am I doing wrong ?
(scratch my head and pull my hair)

Thank you once again for your respond, Ann.

regards,
reko

[Reko Tomo]

[Ann Bens] “Golden rule if source is upper, rest stays upper too.
DVD pal is set default to lower. No big deal just change it to upper.
You can change the bitrate to VBR2 pass, 2.8-7-8 for better quality.”

Hi Ann Bens, thank you very much for your info. Now I’m sure, the field order must follow the field order of the footage.

BTW, yes – I prefer to change the quality … CBR at 7 Mbps.

Thank you once again and really appreciate it.

regards.