[Nigel Cooper]

Pete

It would appear that there is a lot of snobbery attached to the whole HD debate. Sony have popped in with the mid-priced F330 and F350 and have badged it CineAlta, this has put a few noses out of place.

The HD Cinematography workshop guys are not being 100% truthful and their response does sound a little snobby.

They say that HD typically uses 100Mbps and they even mention the HVX-200 in the same breath. How on earth can they write off XDCAM HD, yet welcome the way inferior HVX-200 with open arms????

Fact is the HVX-200 does NOT record at 100Mbps, those guys have been reading too many brochures I think. This 100Mbps includes audio etc. Fact is in reality is actually runs at around 46Mbps.

If you do a side-by-side comparison with HVX-200 and an F350; it ain’t no competition at all. F350 wins by a mile in virtually every respect.

Discovery HD did NOT approve HVX-200, they put it in the same camp as HDV and only allow 15% acquisition of the programme to be shot on it; and no more than 60 seconds in any one go.

Sony’s XDCAM HD on the other hand has been given the full stamp of approval for 100% acquisition purposes.

I know who’s fastidious testing procedures and advice I’ll believe.

[Nigel Cooper]

Paulos, with regard to P2, HDV and HDCAM, they are all different, I don’t think this is a competition. P2 is solid state, HDCAM is tape and HDV is the consumer version of HD. XDCAM HD, that’s a different format too: Sony’s Professional Optical Disc system.

I would not say XDCAM HD is glorified HDV, the only similarity is the MPEG Long GoP; that’s it. The HDV format is strictly 25Mbps constant. XDCAM HD runs up to 35Mbps variable and will be 50Mbps variable in 2007; that and a 50GB dual layer disc to record to!!

Then there is the fact that XDCAM HD is full size using professional 1/2 inch lenses and the on-board circuitry is so much better than the likes of those found in cams like the Z1.

Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with the Long GoP; it is your friend, not an enemy.

I can’t understand why folk bring HDV or XDCAM HD into programmes such as Final Cut via a Kona and capture into the DVCPROHD codec. The DVCPROHD codec is not only lossey, but it is a different codec to XDCAM or HDV hence all you are doing is transcoding and creating one serious ‘generation loss’. Why do this when you can simply work in native XDCAM HD mode?

I have a dual 2.66 intel Mac Pro and working with native XDCAM HD footage from an F350 feels no different to when I used to work with native DVCAM footage from DSR570; just as quick, just as effeciant etc. But I don’t stack up 20 layers of video and audio so I can’t comment on how that would work. I usually have around 4 layers of video and 4 layers, sometimes 5 of audio and it is fine.

My workflow is to bring in via FAM onto a native XDCAM HD 1080p timeline in FCP, edit natively, then send back master HD version to the F350 onto a Pro Disc.

For my SD DVD I simply create a new sequence in FCP as SD uncompressed 8-bit 16:9, then copy/paste my HD timeline onto it, then render it out and send that to Episode Pro for MPEG encoding for DVDSP. I find re-rendering a 1 hour HD to SD timeline takes about 30 minutes, then the Episode Pro encode of a 1 hour SD timeline is just under real time. No problems here with speed whatsoever. My SD DVDs look pin sharp and any Photoshop graphics suddenly look wonderful again when dropped into a new 8-bit uncompressed timeline. Oh, no raids, just bog-standard internal hard drives.

As for the production workflow not being different to Digibeta. You will find that it is way different, XDCAM HD is in a different production workflow league altogether. For a start you can fit 5 XDCAM discs in your jacket pocket, can’t do that with 5 Digi tapes. You can instantly play back clips to clients, who will be impressed by the way the thumbnails work. You can’t accidently record over a clip like you can with tape if you back it up too far. You don’t have to worry about breaking timecode. Now this one is silly I know, but if you are working near water and drop a disc in, simply dry it off and use it no problem. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I can’t comment on conforming as I’ve only gone back to XDCAM disc, which needs conforming, but it was fast and I didn’t see any point in sitting there watching it, I went for a coffee and when I got back it was done.

David, interesting comments you make on my long and comprehensive feature over on DVuser. I can understand where you are coming from and I agree that parts of it read like I work for Sony. But the reason it reads like that is because the first time I got my hands on an F350 for a week I was totally blown away with it. I agree it is not the best camcorder in the world and it certainly dosn’t produce the best images in the world. But for the price there is nothing like it. XDCAM HDs Optical Disc format is brilliant for a huge number of reasons and the image quality is far superior to the following cameras, all of which I either own, or have owned and have done side-by-side tests via HD monitor: JVC GY-HD111, Sony Z1, Panasonic HVX200. XDCAM HD simply wipes the floor with these cameras. The overall image is much cleaner with better bite and colour saturation. When I A/B switched between an F350 hooked up via HD/SDI into a HD monitor with HD/SDI board, and the JVC GY-HD111E via Componant, the image quality was far superior coming from F350. Funny thing, I own the JVC and have just completed a 4 month production on ‘how to film wildlife’ see http://www.wildlifefilmmaking.com and I always thought the image quality of it was pretty amazing for a camera costing

[Nigel Cooper]

I suppose this depends on your region. Folk in USA tend to shoot 24p and folk in the UK tend to shoot 25p because of the PAL system.

However, I know of a few guys in the UK that are considering shooting 24P now, simply because the USA market is bigger and that is the preferred format there.

UK folk shooting 24p will simply speed the footage up a tad to make a 25p UK version. Apparently this looks better than if you were to shoot in 25p then slow it down a tad for the USA market in 24p. Slowing down from 25 to 24 apparently gives a slight ‘lag’ to the programme.

Personally, all my F350 experience has been 25P, but I’m based in the UK. I have not personally done the above tests of trans-codeing (if that is the right word) from 25 to 24 or from 24 to 25 so can’t really comment on the ‘lag’ or ‘speed up’ factors or how they look.

Not sure if this was the kind of answer you are looking for?

[Nigel Cooper]

Thanks Walter, you have a point about NAB.

Cheers

[Nigel Cooper]

I’ve read that one, but it is no good as I state in this post that I don’t want to spend thousands of pounds on hardware, I need a software only fix until Apple support it next year.

I’m sure there is a custom thing you can set up.

[Nigel Cooper]

That makes sense. I’ve just MPEG encoded the file and played that back in QuickTime, at this point it plays it back in native Widescreen. Just had to encode it to MPEG before QuickTime could see it.

[Nigel Cooper]

Create a new sequence with new sequence settings of SD uncompressed 8-bit widescreen. Copy/paste your XDCAM HD timeline onto this new sequence and re-render.

Then export this new file.

This is how I’ve been working with 720p footage from a JVC HDV camcorder and it renders out amazing.

[Nigel Cooper]

Chris, I can’t drag a FCP file to it, it simply rejects it. I first have to save it, then stick a .mov extention on. Then when it is done in Episode, it is saved with a .ts exetention that is not compatible with DVDSP?

[Nigel Cooper]

David, yes I loaded the easy set up for both these two separate projects of 1080p XDCAM HD 35Mbps and the other separate project of HDV 720p/25p. These are two separate projects remember, not both on the same timeline or sequence.

There is no BM driver for 720p, just 720/50, not 720/25. I don’t think BM support either.

Steve, if I do what you suggest it will not be native XDCAM HD timeline anymore, it will become a new codec of DVCPRO HD, which I don’t want. I need to stay working in a native XDCAM HD timeline of 1080p for the XDCAM stuff.

Also, what about the other project that is HDV 720p/25p?

Do I need to buy a better card from a different company, or is there another solution.

Thanks guys

[Nigel Cooper]

David, yes I loaded the easy set up for both these two separate projects of 1080p XDCAM HD 35Mbps and the other separate project of HDV 720p/25p. These are two separate projects remember, not both on the same timeline or sequence.

There is no BM driver for 720p, just 720/50, not 720/25. I don’t think BM support either.

Steve, if I do what you suggest it will not be native XDCAM HD timeline anymore, it will become a new codec of DVCPRO HD, which I don’t want. I need to stay working in a native XDCAM HD timeline of 1080p for the XDCAM stuff.

Also, what about the other project that is HDV 720p/25p?

Do I need to buy a better card from a different company, or is there another solution.

Thanks guys