Ned Miller
3
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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Damn I meant to say Todd, not Terry! Constantly do that. Maybe I’m dyslexic?
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Hi Terry,
Well, he is a really nice guy but I suppose sees everything as “negotiable”. The 60% figure, that was his tip as to handling the rent figure a landlord first puts forward, and I extrapolated that to me! As for “rates”, you are in a unique position in that you specialize in mainly one thing: spots. Me, I try to do anything that comes my way, and each of my projects is different in terms of pricing. I draw the line at dance recitals, neo-Nazi promos, etc., but if business is slow I will consider most all requests. So I charge what the “market will bear” and I prefer to quote “ranges”, so all bases are covered. I have a phrase: “I can estimate it on 4 levels: Yugo, Chevy, Cadillac or Maserati”. Sometimes I ask them what they have budgeted so we don’t waste each other’s time.
I do admit that I bid this one high because there was a lot of interaction with the audience that will suck post time. Against my advice no one waited for the handheld mic nor stood up to be seen, so editing those if requested is a nightmare.
In my end of the DP market the bottom fell out a few years ago (5D) so I have to be much more cost competitive than the old days but can demand a higher dollar if there’s quality or stress involved, like CEO shooting. Also, depending on who I am negotiating with determines the figure I will throw out, see how they respond, if there’s a pause, etc. On TV shows I’m often contacted by kids who are told to find someone with a model X and sound person for $X. I am the world’s slowest editor so I could never quote hourly. In fact, I never, and I advise my clients similarly, to NEVER accept an hourly rate estimate for post because who knows how many hours it will take? In the old days I would sit supervising editors and discovered, as with all professions, everyone has a different speed.
The new Canon C100 will simultaneously shoot MP4s and I bet the reason is to provide the client something to watch and takes notes from.
That is a great idea to have suggested VLC to avoid making him MP4s! Wish I thought of that.
And Steve, I think I will create a PDF of the workflow possibilities so they can read that they need a viewer of some sort.
Thanks,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Hey Nakean,
Quick Answer: DO NOT PROCEED.
The wife and I unfortunately had to buy two new cars last year, we have always tried to have one car fully paid for and one with payments, but as our luck had it both died in 2015 so we were in the market for two new ones, so I have a lot of recent experience on shopping. There is no way video does justice to a vehicle as still photography does. This is based on hours of experience going onto Cars.com, Edmunds, Carmax, etc. With stills you can now mouse around, blow up, etc. and you can’t do that with video as well.
I filmed the 2015 Chicago Auto Show and was amazed at the pro still photographers from the major auto magazines and how they set up 360 still cameras in the exact center of the interior, they had specialized tripods, motorized heads. No way could you do it justice with video.
But let’s breakdown your idea. As Todd mentioned there’s something called Co Op Funds and you’d have to be dealing with the dealership’s advertising manager and agency. The agency is involved because they buy the air time, rarely have I seen the dealer execs do it because it is such an arcane science. So you as an outside, unknown entity, will have a hard time breaking in, and if you manage to worm yourself in, the agency will resent you. Agencies don’t care for us coming in and grabbing some of their pie. I have found that dealerships are run like feudal dictatorships, high ego owners and when I first started in the biz I shot a lot of local dealer spots. Regional spots were a more rarefied world. Nowadays it’s more corporate, where several models share a lot and there’s a holding company keeping the little dictators in check, run more like a traditional business rather than a dictatorship, but that biz is still known for being top down and also for slow paying.
But the real reason I say kill this idea is that it is based on “inventory”, which changes by the second in that business. Every spot you make with have zero shelf life. Opposite of evergreen. Back in the day when they did show individual rides in their spots, the lower fourth of fifth of the screen legally had to have the stock or VIN number, at least in IL, plus legalese so small you couldn’t even read it, because the dealers were caught in bait and switch (I’m shocked!). The laws are different for every state but there was always a lot of minuscule text.
That’s my two cents. Although a few months ago I did a slew of dealer spots, mainly little documentaries about client satisfaction, I was glad I was “just the DP”, I personally wouldn’t want to deal with them directly. Very high stress business…
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Well, you never know. Just because the English grammar is a little rough that doesn’t mean it’s a scam. Since I started this thread way back in February I was contacted by a French marketing agency to film and edit two videos at a trade show at our largest convention hall in Chicago. I thought, “Oh no, here we go again.” But it turned out to be a real gig! They had a real website. The principals of the company appeared on the internet. Etc. But the original wording of their first email looked like one of the scammers returning.
What you have to look out for is: After you present your estimate they will come up with a reason as to why they have to send an Advance Payment. After they do that they will tell you that the gig was cancelled and to please send the money back but keep perhaps 35% for yourself. That is the red flag for the scam.
Also, they list a 10,000 Euro budget. That is very high for a two day shoot and edit, especially since you are only filming two hours per day. So to me that is a red flag.
However, there are fools out there and perhaps this woman’s boss told her to “find a video service and don’t spend over 10,000 Euros!” I have seen that plenty of times. Every gig starts with a phone call or email so you must run this down, it may be a good lead. Let us know.
Goo luck,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
I am not clear, it seems you’re doing more work for them? If they are a client who does not represent current or future business, then yes, I’d charge them for an hour or two. If they review the raw interviews does that mean they will choose takes and ask you to edit? If so, I would bury what I would charge them for the burned in TC interviews in another part of the invoice, so it’s not obvious. I feel it would seem as if I was nickel and diming them if I was already doing a larger project for them. Just bury it.
What used to be known as Clip Wrap is now called Edit Ready and makes clips in different codecs quick and easy. You could make it so small and low resolution they couldn’t use it for editing.
That’s my two cents.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
That’s just the price of being your own small business. Win some, lose some. I think if you were to try to bill for your time thus far, that would leave a bad taste. As Mark said, it hadn’t progressed far enough to bill for the time you put in. There is something called a Kill Fee had you really started but it looks like you can’t apply it in this situation. If they are good people you should periodically tickle them. Sometimes they get cold feet when they realize how challenging, and expensive, video is.
However, if I were you, I’d keep an eye on their website and YT page in a couple of months to make certain they didn’t use your creative concepts for a video produced by themselves or a competitor. Quite common. That has happened to me several times, they steal your mojo and ideas. You won’t have a legal leg to stand on but you could figure out ways to shame them, starting with the top boss.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
That is very cool! Are you also recording it? Do you get the parents to sign releases? Just kidding. Every man needs a hobby and yours is very unique.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Oh well, you can only do Google for so long before you run out of new leads, so I will bite the bullet and re-up to LinkedIn’s Pro level membership for $50 a month, and when I get busy then I’ll cancel.
Thanks
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Thanks guys, this seems to help. It is bring up services however, rather than executives with that title. For example, searching a title, then zip code, then minus jobs and employment, what comes up are services and companies that do that term phrase.
If I put in marketing communications then what comes up are small consultants, agencies, etc. rather than the execs within companies.
Thanks
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -