[Ned Miller]

Thanks Steve! Regarding the frame size, they have catalog still shots of jewelry and when the video loads they want it to be in the same frame. I’ll see if I can talk them into changing, I doubt it. It was OK when I did the first shoot in betacam. This is my idea to go HD. I suppose if I do go 480 I can fit more on a card.

Can I ask you a FCP question? When I shot a test and brought a clip into FCP no matter what I do it stays 16×9, how can I make the frame 4×3? I will shoot it keeping the product within the monitor’s 4×3 scribe lines, but once in FCP how do I cut off the sides?

Thanks!

Ned

[Ned Miller]

Oh sorry. I thought you were a stringer. The only times I made money in news was when there was a LOT of overtime and we would ala carte all the accessories. I would only shoot for one network at a time. The networks here are so competitive I can’t imagine them splitting the video. Also, once I started having kids I realized what a rat race it was and I had to deal with too much depressing subject matter. I found corporate shoots and TV shows so much easier plus I get to edit a lot which is nice indoor work compared to news.

I reckon you have the game down right if you’re making that kind of dough. Keep doing it.

Happy Shooting!

Ned

[Ned Miller]

I too come from the betacam world and when I first moved to digital I learned that there is less head room, meaning hot audio breaks up. Or it could be the Mic/Line mistake a poster above alluded to.

So here is what you do from now on, and many of the TV shows I work on, like Dr. Phil, etc. demand:

Before the shoot even starts roll some bars and tone BUT then a little human voice and play back. Just takes a minute. INSIST the audio guy is listening off the camera, some only monitor their mixer. Especially if the audio guy is going wireless to the camera, they tend to not check the REAL camera audio.

So…lesson learned, we all learn by our mistakes. You should offer a reshoot at your expense and if the sound guy is ethical he will offer you many days of freebies to help make up for it.

Good luck,

Ned

[Ned Miller]

I’ve been shooting for 33 years and here’s what I know:

News doesn’t pay.

Used to in the old days when they needed pros, especially if you were on staff with a network. But what you’re doing, at least in the Chicago area, it doesn’t pay much and you’ll always be in these situations that you now find yourself in. Real rat race where only quantity will make the difference. Avoid the news…

Regards,

Ned

[Ned Miller]

Hi John,

I have been freelance for thirty-three years, producing for the last ten, and what I have done is taken the best techniques and tricks from the most successful producers I have worked for. So I don’t consider this my advice per se but a tool kit of tactics:

I re-read your posts and I don’t see anywhere the mention that it will go to the lowest bidder, often they are afraid of the lowest bidder. I also don’t see where they are being “grinders”, they probably know nothing of video production (yet). From your post it sounds like they are a semi-government agency?

From reading the responses you wouldn’t think there’s a recession going on. Am I the only person in this biz with two kids in college and married to a low paid schoolteacher? I have done two projects similar (construction docs for quasi-govt) if you want to private message me. I would say spend just an hour figuring out your production costs, basic editing excluding graphics, add a Murphy’s Law factor plus perhaps a 15% producing fee. It’s that easy.

Throw in every sample you can showing construction and on site interviews since these types of clients have no imagination: they must see exactly what they have in mind. This job if you win it will be dirty, muddy, some underground, so show similar samples if possible. List every item in your estimate because that is the way they receive non-video production bids and will relate to detailed itemization (C47s). Don’t use the word Profit anywhere, couch it. Impress them by putting in a couple of cherry picker rentals for aerial shots, after all it will be a giant water pipe construction scene.

When I started in the mid 70s there was a finished minute rule of thumb. No more. Talking heads, heavy graphics, layering, compression, etc. make such a yardstick obsolete. Perhaps people specializing in post can use a formula but production is similar to construction: how many yards of cement, nails and workers per day… This is not one guy sitting in a chair in front of a computer, it’s hard costs that are easy to predict if you have the experience.

You will have to show you have great insurance, probably need to show a Certificate. Since it will be heavy, dangerous construction you may want to up it before sending freelancers into the muddy holes. If you already have great coverage be sure to mention it in your bid. Cheaper competitors may have no insurance, which will make your bid look much better!

Lastly, a poster said there’s no such thing as Half Days. I have been a freelance DP for 33 years, there was a time when I wouldn’t do Half Days. My solution: call them Short Days and bill 2/3rds. Offering a discounted day will put you at a competitive advantage: clients NEVER understand how one interview for an hour should cost a full day. Offer your favorite shooter a deal: Good News- I can give you 12 full days over the next two years, Bad News- need you to agree to 3 short days. Any DP with kids in college will take it believe me! I offer my clients short days so a competitor won’t get a foot in the door, as a favor for giving me lots of work and also the theory that something on a slow day is better than nothing. This is usually 4 hours portal to portal though. On a project like this there will be days when they want just one shot.

So good luck, I wish I could bid on it, this is the worst I have seen this biz since 1976! And budgets were going downhill fast before the economic meltdown due to many factors. Let me know how it ends up.

Best regards,

Ned Miller.com

[Ned Miller]

About ten years ago I produced a similar project over a two year period on an EPA grant, and a couple others similar, having to go in flexibly every month, or when called, and shoot documentary style with a smattering of interviews. It is dangerous to quote these types of projects because when you are dealing with a quasi-governmental body it is near impossible to go back for budget revisions since your contact is powerless to get you more money. At least in a corporate project, when the parameters expand, you can make noise for an increase in budget. On these types of jobs you are just a line item in a very big project…So whatever figure is arrived at assume you will have to live with it.

First I’d say try to find out how many other companies they sent the brief to. If in your opinion it’s too many, then save yourself hours of cost estimating. My threshold is three or four. Make sure you aren’t a “check bid”. Often they know who they want to go to but must get several bids for legal dressing.

Make sure you can bill in thirds or quarters since these kinds of gigs drag on forever, and the definition of “done” is open to interpretation. This is like dealing with a non-profit in that all approvals have to be “committee”.

The estimating is simple NOT INCLUDING GRAPHICS. I would estimate the total amount of shoot days PLUS, put in the cost of hiring freelancers to sub for you, in case you are on another job when they need you to come out and shoot. I make window dubs and have them choose footage and interview bites, thus saving me post time. After all, this is not sample reel building material.

Here’s a good tactic: I knew graphics would be expensive because these kind of jobs want the viewer to have an overview, so I suggested we get maps made in a video friendly style at Kinkos and periodically have the engineers involved explain at an easel what was progressing. They LOVED that idea, saved thousands, brought my estimate down.

Regarding contracts, they will have one that your lawyer really can’t mark up, but it is pointless in that there is no way to successfully sue an entity like this. Ask any local lawyer, it would take years. So consider a contract to be more of a Letter of Agreement in terms of understanding who does what. Make sure you deal with several contacts in case one or two leave their employment during the course of such a long gig. It has happened to me and can get confusing, possibly ugly.

BTW, I got the big EPA progress job because I was the closest videographer/producer and since I owned gear I said I would also shoot half days, they loved that since they knew some shoots would only be an hour. I presented myself as a “Fireman” although I knew I may need to send substitutes. Make sure in your bid you cover yourself that way, they understand you may not show up.

Lastly, on these kind of gigs there is a great networking opportunity in that you will meet powerful local movers and shakers, usually in the construction and real estate industry. Plus have early opportunities for future projects and become their “Go To Guy” on non-bid jobs.

Good Luck,

Ned

P.S. Remember the CHinese proverb, “Be careful what you wish for…”

[Ned Miller]

Hi Adam,

So even though it’s “over 60” it’s really 30P? Isn’t everything on a HVX 200 “over 60”? Thx

[Ned Miller]

Hi John,

I’m in the same boat, a former D600 owner. Which model did you decide to buy?

Thanks,

Ned

[Ned Miller]

I have been EXACTLY where you are now many times and here’s what I now do for self preservation: At the end of the initial conversation, usually on the phone, I’ll say, “Could you please shoot me an email as to what you’re needing exactly so I can respond tonight?” In this manner I have made them commit to clarifying what they need since we seldom have time for Letters of Agreement, etc. If they don’t send their email I send one listing my understanding of what they want.

I make sure I know what their deliverable is and if they want a Flash file I know to add an aggravation fee because I often become a ping pong ball for their IT dept or web people. Anything time consuming, like graphics, are a red flag to me and I will get more clarification before committing to a price.

I try to discern how many layers of approval there are, if more than one I add another aggravation fee figuring there’s GOT to be revisions with more cooks in the kitchen.

Grinner quotes a flat rate, I believe in giving a range, in this way they get the inkling we are in a FLUID situation: Want more? Costs more. I never quote hourly because they usually want to know what the total cost may be. Besides, when I hire vendors there’s no way to tell if they are fast or slow, so I require a range.

Some respondents mentioned “contract”. That’s crazy with big companies: They’re too big to sue, I’m too small to be sued. The legal fees would eat it up anyway. Often they have to send my contract to their legal people before signing and they mark it up in a way I can’t understand and thus need to send it to my attorney, so screw it, if I can’t trust you I don’t produce for you. I have generic Letters of Agreement that if push comes to shove I would show to their boss if needed, and if they’re a problem their boss’s boss’s boss. I have experienced my main contact being transfered, quitting, fired and yes, one even died, so my email trail is very beneficial.

Lastly, and perhaps this should be the name of this forum, we all must remember this: YOU CAN NEVER WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A CLIENT, even when they’re wrong they’re right.

Good luck!

Ned