[Ned Miller]

Yes, but Day-in-the-Life documentaries are handheld all over so I can’t be tethered. Might as well go beta. One nice thing is there is no audio allowed.

Thanks

[Ned Miller]

One thing I do know is not to pose a question to an attorney client that I don’t have the answer to. They look at us as their outside consultant/expert so I need to find out if any case law in IL is relevant to erasing the media the original event was shot on.

I have a post into the LinkedIn Litigation Specialists group and the Yahoo Legal Video group so perhaps someone on the legal side can let us video folks know what’s up. I do know that in depositions (which I don’t do because there’s no money in it) they often record direct to hard drives, but I do not know if that hard drive is then considered the archival master and they never can erase it.

When digital still was first used in litigation support there was a big hulabaloo about how easy it was to manipulate digital imagery undetected. And that is why I am wondering if erasing a P2 is considered “destroying the original”, even though we all know it’s 1:1.

My gut says to play it safe, record tape like I always have and do more research re: IL case law because if there ever is a problem with a law firm, look out! I will let you all know what I find out. Thanks!

[Ned Miller]

Hi Noah,

Thanks for your opinion, which is the way I also think, but it is based on logic, whereas litigation is based on “The Law”. I’m trying to find out if The Law would consider the P2 card “the original” and if so it would be cost prohibitive. I think it may be safer to just shoot on old betacam. Since it is an all day handheld shoot I was hoping to get by with the much lighter 300. At least with beta there’s an original to keep and label. I know from doing stills for litigation the original card is inviolate, it MUST be preserved, as we did with tapes, so it seems just mentioning that the “original” was erased will open a can of worms.

I also have a post on the Yahoo Legal Video Group site, but they’re probably still shooting in DV or HDV so they may not know what tapeless means. They’d have no reason to upgrade to HD for their client base. By the way, for any knowledgeable folks thinking of responding I forgot to say I am in Illinois because state law matters.

Best regards,

Ned

[Ned Miller]

Me too. A full 32 card takes me 16 minutes to dump in my laptop slot. Then it’s even quicker when I go 800 firewire to another drive as a secondary backup. So, it may be cheaper to buy an old laptop or fix your firewire port.

Ned

[Ned Miller]

Long Time Freelance Shooter Here:

I was just about to pull the trigger and buy a 2700 (btw the price quoted does NOT include a lens), when several calls for major TV shows came in. They don’t care for getting a drive at the end of the day, they aren’t going to pay for a P2 wrangler, they don’t want to take time for a media dump, they want either a tape (HDX900) or XDCAM discs at the end of the day, especially the out-of-towners. Also, the big dogs dictate to freelance shooters like myself exactly which model camera they want, including settings. Had I bought a 2700 I would have had to do a lot of sweet talking, perhaps offered to do the media dumps after dinner on my own time?

So, I bought a HPX300 for an “around the house” camera for mid level corporate etc., and it is best to rent when they demand a $20-40K body with a $15K piece of glass. Seems to me the Sony XDCAM format is gaining popularity on the east coast mainly because that’s the calls I’m getting. If I thought the HDX900 had a longer future I would have bought that but I have been doing this for so long (33 yrs) I have seen great DPs go broke buying the wrong tech at the wrong time. If you are in a closed loop shop then a 2700 is great, but as a freelance shooter there is no one HIGH END model anymore that will handle all the incoming calls because each high end client is dictating which model to use, based on what the other scenes were shot with.

It all comes down to making a profit. The low and mid range folks are still fine with HDV so talking them into paying more for using a 2700 won’t work. In fact, it’s possible to clear more per month servicing HDV clients then to have a 2700 on my shelf that only works a few days a month, agreed?

I will swear that the high end Gold Level shows on Discovery & Hist Ch do not want to risk data dumps by almost total strangers, they don’t trust traveling with drives, they don’t want to schedule time for data dumps since they barely give us time for lunch. So I see P2 as an interim format that I have bought into for the time being for local clients who don’t mind the time to data dump.

As it stands, since I started doing P2 (does P stand for Pain in the Ass?) I have given up many of my lunch breaks for data dumps, valuable time when I need to respond to clients via email, etc. and eat and rest. Also, when I get home I have to do dumps, buy drives, get them to the client the next day somehow. What a pain….I can see how P2 helps the post folks but it is a major set back for a freelance DP like me, when I want to have dinner and pop a beer, watch some TV, I am now having to mess with P2 footage that didn’t get done during the shoot day…

And the reason I see XDCAM winning in the long run: some of my clients who are now starting to edit tapeless and have accepted the P2 workflow from their local shooters, are now trying to figure out how to ARCHIVE the projects. They don’t trust drives for long term storage. So I am hearing the solution they have found (drum roll): archive onto Sony discs. So they will then have the decks to play XDCAM discs that were shot in the field as well. At least that’s what I hear. So that means that if I do buy into XDCAM I will know it will be accepted by more clients, especially the ones skittish about going totally tapeless.

In summary, P2 is great but I see (and hope) it will be an interim format. As a freelance shooter life will be so much simpler if I could just hand recorded discs to a client like I handed shot beta tapes. As it stands now, at the speed we move, it seems that the data dumps need to be done after the shoot, and since I own the cards that means ME working into the evening. So I don’t see how a 2700, as great as it is, helps in the long run. I have seen many formats begin like this with tremendous excitement and then the herd suddenly migrates to the new cheaper/faster/quicker option. Although I just bought into mid-level P2 I am too jaded to jump into the deep end of the P2 pool. I’ve seen this movie before…Please be careful. Perhaps survey your clients to make sure many of them want it.

Later,

Ned

[Ned Miller]

This is what I do after years of experimenting:

1) Cut the snaps ends off the strap that came with it.

2) Go to a large guitar store and pick out an adjustable strap.

3) Take it all to a shoe repair shop because the cobbler there has a heavy duty sewing machine that will connect the snaps to the new guitar strap.

You will look cool.

Ned

[Ned Miller]

Thanks Gabe! I do still have my old Horita time code reader. But what if I reformat the cards after dumping it to a hard drive? Then I can’t just play from the camera. Oh well. I’ll just tell them to have their editor do it.

Best regards,

Ned

[Ned Miller]

Wow thanks Keith! It’s great a company rep is here to answer questions. I will shoot 30fps then.

However, because I am shooting in HD I am forced to have a 16:9 ratio. I will have the sides cropped off in editing and provide a 4×3 QT to my client in the weird size of 250×187. The client has that size window on their web page for their still photos.

Then the client will upload the QTs to Fliqz. If you could respond before 8AM Central Time, I was planning on shooting 1080, is that OK? I know it’s not necessary for their website, just building beautiful product shots for my HD producing reel.

By the way, they are extremely happy with your service!

Best regards,

Ned Miller.com

[Ned Miller]

Uh Oh…on second thought, I am not doing the encoding, it is being done by Fliqz which is probably an automated service.

[Ned Miller]

Because I am shooting HD it will be 16×9. I want to shoot this in HD because I am producing and need to build up more HD samples. As a freelance DP I have shot a lot of HD but have produced and edited no HD.

I am using Sorenson Squeeze 5 so you are advising I crop there to create 4×3 rather than FCP? Is that what you’re advising? I would do a test but the Bears are on now!

I will pressure them to change to a size divisible by 16, we’ll see, but I turn nothing down with two kids in college!

Best,

Ned