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Quoting based on a very brief Brief
Hi all, my first post here.
We are relatively new to the video production business, yet in the last twelve months have managed to make some very good contacts and prospects, two of them being the two local council bodies that govern the region. Finally, we have received an opportunity to quote.
This morning we received a request for a preliminary quotation on the production of a 30-minute DVD that will include coverage of a major water pipeline being built in the area over the next two years. Each stage is to be documented and the production will include a variety of location shots, interviews and etc. during the time the pipeline is started, right through to completion and the “turning on” of the service in 2011.
The letter that was sent through included a construction time-line on a month-by-month basis and what they wanted to cover in each month, but of course no detailed information on how long any of it should take to cover, or how long they wanted us on site, how many hours or days each part of the shoot should take.
My question is this:
How do you quote on something like this when, obviously, we would be competing with others.
There is no knowledge of how much time would be spent on-location.
Do you quote on a “finished minutes” rule for the DVD, or do you put in a preliminary quote with points stating that until further detailed information is obtained, this is an estimate of costs? Do you quote with periods of review at each stage?
We have found it reasonably easy to quote on general corporate videos where time is a known quantity, but for something like this, it is so open-ended, we are really struggling to get our heads around it.
The cost of the DVD will be shared between two councils, by the way.
Would certainly appreciate any advice on this.
Thank you in advance,
JM
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24 Replies
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Actually his has turned into an interesting one.
I requested a more detailed explanation of the different on-location shoots; there are various days, some with one shoot and others with multiple shoots, but they can’t clarify how long each will take or whether the shoots will all be on one day or split over several days.
Very hard to quote when there are so many unknown variables.
JM
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You will have to quote to the best of your abilities to guess how long each part of the shoot might take based on your previous experience.
The quote should very clearly lay out that “based on the information provided at the time of this quote, we estimate it will cost $X to produce this video.” And then you lay out what’s included in the quote including how many days of shooting it will take, when you anticipate shooting based on the construction schedule, etc….
Obviously you also include that anything required beyond the original information will be billed at additional costs, etc…..
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Quoting finished minutes went out in the 80s when finished minutes changed to such a broad spectrum. You’ll quote according to the time you put into it. In this case, you’ll add some because of how the time is spread out so… and you’ll get half down to ensure it doesn’t just go away on ya and there is a much better chance of that happening in this case for obvious reasons.
Iron out those key shoot times so you really know what you are looking at. Know those dates will surely change on you but file the number of shoots away for this quote.
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I’ll add that once you nail down the different things you have to shoot, base your estimate on either a half-day or full-day of shooting for each shoot day. On the parts of the project where it says there will be just one thing shot, quote a half-day, on the ones where there are multiple things shot, quote a full-day.
Chances are you won’t be able to shoot or bill for much else on those days anyway, so you deserve to be paid for reserving those half-days or full-days for this project.
Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com -
About ten years ago I produced a similar project over a two year period on an EPA grant, and a couple others similar, having to go in flexibly every month, or when called, and shoot documentary style with a smattering of interviews. It is dangerous to quote these types of projects because when you are dealing with a quasi-governmental body it is near impossible to go back for budget revisions since your contact is powerless to get you more money. At least in a corporate project, when the parameters expand, you can make noise for an increase in budget. On these types of jobs you are just a line item in a very big project…So whatever figure is arrived at assume you will have to live with it.
First I’d say try to find out how many other companies they sent the brief to. If in your opinion it’s too many, then save yourself hours of cost estimating. My threshold is three or four. Make sure you aren’t a “check bid”. Often they know who they want to go to but must get several bids for legal dressing.
Make sure you can bill in thirds or quarters since these kinds of gigs drag on forever, and the definition of “done” is open to interpretation. This is like dealing with a non-profit in that all approvals have to be “committee”.
The estimating is simple NOT INCLUDING GRAPHICS. I would estimate the total amount of shoot days PLUS, put in the cost of hiring freelancers to sub for you, in case you are on another job when they need you to come out and shoot. I make window dubs and have them choose footage and interview bites, thus saving me post time. After all, this is not sample reel building material.
Here’s a good tactic: I knew graphics would be expensive because these kind of jobs want the viewer to have an overview, so I suggested we get maps made in a video friendly style at Kinkos and periodically have the engineers involved explain at an easel what was progressing. They LOVED that idea, saved thousands, brought my estimate down.
Regarding contracts, they will have one that your lawyer really can’t mark up, but it is pointless in that there is no way to successfully sue an entity like this. Ask any local lawyer, it would take years. So consider a contract to be more of a Letter of Agreement in terms of understanding who does what. Make sure you deal with several contacts in case one or two leave their employment during the course of such a long gig. It has happened to me and can get confusing, possibly ugly.
BTW, I got the big EPA progress job because I was the closest videographer/producer and since I owned gear I said I would also shoot half days, they loved that since they knew some shoots would only be an hour. I presented myself as a “Fireman” although I knew I may need to send substitutes. Make sure in your bid you cover yourself that way, they understand you may not show up.
Lastly, on these kind of gigs there is a great networking opportunity in that you will meet powerful local movers and shakers, usually in the construction and real estate industry. Plus have early opportunities for future projects and become their “Go To Guy” on non-bid jobs.
Good Luck,
Ned
P.S. Remember the CHinese proverb, “Be careful what you wish for…”
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[Chris Blair] “I’ll add that once you nail down the different things you have to shoot, base your estimate on either a half-day or full-day of shooting for each shoot day”
We do not quote 1/2 days anymore as none of our shooters will quote 1/2 day anymore either. By the time you head to the shoot, shoot, head back home, you’ve lost an entire day. It’s not like they can book two shoots back to back. So just schedule all full days.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Although we don’t create estimates based solely on length of finished video, we can better estimate, based on years and years of projects and the type of project, how much it might cost. For post only we have a range from $400-$1000 per finished minute for post only projects and from $2000-$5000 per finished minute including production depending on the scope of the project.
After almost every project we take the final billables and divide it by the length of the final video(s) to get cost per finished minute. After you do fifty of these or so, you will have a pretty good idea of how much to estimate for a given project.
So although we don’t simply estimate on length we do use it in “crafting” our estimates to the client. It also helps us to articulate to them that if the length changes during the project it will certainly affect the final cost. We have found that you can bank on it….if the length changes, so does the cost.
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media
Editor, Designer, Compositor, Writer, Producer, Compressionist, Business Owner, Photographer, Duplicator, COW ContributorMultiple winner of WAVE Awards, ADDY Awards, Telly Awards, Pele Awards, Auroroa Awards, and many, many more.
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Thanks folks, this is our first “Tendering” quote, so the whole process is quite alien to us.
Another thing they said to us which was strange (or it might be common, don’t know) was that the budget would be revealed to the successful bidder.
What does this mean? Does it mean that, if you come in under budget and are the successful bidder, that you will be able to charge the budgeted amount, or does it mean you get the “boy, you really could have charged more than that” comment?
The cloak-and-dagger stuff is really quite off-putting, but obviously something we will have to get used to if dealing with councils.
JM
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[John Murphy] “The cloak-and-dagger stuff is really quite off-putting, but obviously something we will have to get used to if dealing with councils.”
Or not.
We never play with the cloak-and-dagger guys. (Though I will admit that it made for a dandy song on the 1984 CAMEL album “Stationary Traveler.”)
After enough years of filling out proposals and bids and watching most all of them be awarded to low-ballers whose bids were so ridiculous that we couldn’t even break-even at those kinds of rates, we gave up on trying to win that kind of business. It is so hit-and-miss as to be one of the most ineffective uses of our time when we measured it.
Ron Lindeboom
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[John Murphy] “Another thing they said to us which was strange (or it might be common, don’t know) was that the budget would be revealed to the successful bidder.
What does this mean? Does it mean that, if you come in under budget and are the successful bidder, that you will be able to charge the budgeted amount, or does it mean you get the “boy, you really could have charged more than that” comment? “
For most companies, If they have 25,000 in the budget and you have the winning bid of 15,000, guess what, you do the job for 15,000 and they save 10,000. They will tell you they have “about $15,000 in our budget so your bid is just great.”
Long story short, don’t spend a whole lot of time on this as they are just trying to get the lowest priced budget. I spend about 10 minutes on a bid like this……
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
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