Ned Miller
3
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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No Scott. In the US the IRS rules. Even though we consider them to be “freelancers” the IRS has a checklist of 20+ items that they consider to be employees and in most cases, if you’re audited, they will be considered employees and then you owe back taxes:
For instance, if you tell them what time to show up, if they use any of your gear, if they charge overtime, if you are supervising them, etc. BAM! They are then classified as an employee. It has never, thank God, happened to me, but as a freelancer myself I have heard many stories over the years from producers and production companies being fined. So what you call that person is totally irrelevant in the eyes of the IRS.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
You are better off with a barter deal. I have been offered many times what you have proposed and there’s really no way, since there is no stock, to know the value of the company and its books are amorphous. Also, are you going to have your CPA meet with their CPA and go over the books to see if all is kosher? Not likely.
Barter is the way to go and you’ll stay in shape in this case.
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Hey Greg,
I wasn’t going to chime in but your thread brought up a lot of memories regarding “buying air time”. It’s an arcane science, only a chump pays the rate card, it would be like you writing a check for the first figure the car salesman throws out. To illustrate…
Point 1: For many years, before Chicago had African American cameramen, I was passed around and one producer specialized in doing one hour one-offs for broadcast during Black History Month, which is February. Such as Dramatic Moments in Black Sports History, Romantic Moments in Black Cinema, History of the Negro Baseball Leagues, etc. He was an “OK” producer, but was really a fantastic salesman, who had inside broadcast TV experience, so he knew the ins and outs of time buying, which is the bailiwick of agencies that specialize in spots. As in the hotel industry, where a room that is not rented is revenue forever lost, not selling commercial airtime by broadcast time is also irrecoverably lost, so that’s when they put up PSAs, which the feds mandate, so they get sumthin’ for those 30 seconds. So, once he had what we would call a trailer or sizzle reel, our work-in-progress, he would hit up the Fortune 100 B2C sponsors like Coke, Kraft, who already had spots in the can for that demographic, and they would trip over themselves to buy time on his hour., which he charged dearly for. Basically, he made his profit by selling the airtime for those spots, since to him production and editing was a money loss, and wow, he could sell. My point is, if you are not of their (airtime) universe, a clubby brotherhood, you will be the lamb among the wolves.
Point 2: In terms of pitching to companies, the business model your post is in the footsteps of is what is called Pay-for-Play, which I used to shoot a lot of for a few years. Sort of like 8-10 minute mini-infomercials and the producers would also cut a short for the client’s website. What they had in common is using a B-List celebrity on the way down, like Terry Bradshaw, Hugh Downs (World’s Greatest Treasury of Health Secrets), even the venerable Walter Cronkite during retirement, would be enticed by appealing to their ego or wallet, to host these fake news shows of Titans of Industry, and other similar titles. So there’s a stigma to the knowledgable on selling a company to promote them on sold airtime, where it appears to be industry news but is really an infomercial. Cronkite was the major lawsuit where the show’s host finds out too late he is shilling:
https://floridapayforplayexposed.blogspot.com
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/515033287/And-thats-the-way-it-is-Media-firm-sues-Cronkite.html
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126056182
Besides the stigma of Pay-for-Play, which is what your concept sounded like to me, you gave me PTSD memories of being ripped off by the Boca Bandits. If you read the above links, what they have in common is most of these unethical infomercial producers are based in Boca Raton. Surprise, surprise…Home of the Boiler Room of the ’80s which used high pressure sales tactics to pump worthless stocks to widows. So, what they would do is be open for a year or two, rack up a lot of bills with crew (like me) and not pay us, and take the clients’ money, buy airtime AT 5AM (I swear to God) and then when sued, purposely pre-planned go out-of-business with the help of unscrupulous bankruptcy lawyers. BUT…they would then open up under a new name, new corporate shell, and do it all over again. Back then, before there was a Creative Cow, DVXuser, etc. we had DP forums that listed deadbeat clients but there were threats of defamation lawsuits to stop naming names. But I digress…
And…the reason these customers’ videos, what was portrayed as a soft industry news break through story (infomercial or PR), were broadcast at 5AM? It’s an airtime term called ROS, (Rotation-of-Station), meaning you pay the station a pittance for air time and are put in a lottery pool, so perhaps your program will appear in prime time, or else when only farmers are watching to get the weather report. I know this well because one of my Get Rich Quick schemes was to produce videos for sale to the public and I produced the non-blockbuster Fishing Chicago!, with local fishing experts, charter boat captains, tackle store owners…and I would buy airtime on Midwest Outdoors. Invariably I would get $800 of VHS orders every Saturday afternoon for the exactly $800 of airtime I purchased, so I know of what I speak. I was their chump…And that is why I wish I had just invested that dough into the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index back then. Eeeesh…I hope I talked you off the ledge before you leap?
So, I don’t think your idea would work. Especially with only a local scope. It would HAVE to be national, but you not being a former insider of TV Commercial Time Buying Club, it’s safer to put that money in a low cost total market index fund. Make your money in what you’re expert in and stay away from shark infested waters.
Best,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
You use the two words: Freelancers and then Talent. Which is it? Freelancers imply crew, Talent implies actors.
So if it’s freelancers, it helps if you hire techs who are incorporated. Many older, successful freelancers are incorporated and they are (in theory) responsible for their own taxes. I would write them a check with the understanding they are an Independent Contractor. They can sign a one page IC agreement. If you pay them less than $600 in a calendar year, you don’t need to send in a 1099 form to the IRS. If you do pay them over $600 each and they are unincorporated, don’t pay them until they have supplied their social security number. It’s hard to track people down a year later and you’ll need it for the 1099. Even if you do pay them each over $600 and you don’t send in the 1099 form, nothing much will probably happen anyway. If you pay in cash, in theory you can’t write it off.
So in sum, if you hire and pay established freelancers who have been doing it a while, there should be nothing to worry about, especially if they are incorporated and also sign an IC agreement, which isn’t worth much but if you do get audited you can wave that around.
If they are actors, those types are known to apply for unemployment when gigs are completed and then if they put you down as their last “employer”, ouch. I have had that happen, so if you are meaning that you will be hiring actors there’s different ways to handle that. My first major producing project of my career, the two top talent did that to me. I learned. But crew, I wouldn’t worry about.
Lastly, if it’s a semi dangerous gig, where someone can get hurt or a light can fall on someone’s head, etc., you are responsible so you best be insured. Being incorporated yourself helps because if something bad happens, and I have a couple of dozen stories, their bull dog lawyer can go after your personal assets, which is why most pros are incorporated and producers have insurance.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
“Furthermore, we’ve been told to assume that users won’t be listening to the audio.”
Slightly off thread but I have been asked to do a lot of audio independent videos lately. Usually they will be heavy on text treatment. Several reasons:
• People in an open office environment or cubicles keep their sound turned off.
• Videos for trade shows or public areas, even corporate lobbies, the employees mute the audio because they will go nuts.
• Videos for international consumption, they don’t want English narration or talking heads because they want to be able to do other language versions cheaply.Online at CNN you’ll see a lot of these infographics type videos where you get the gist with the audio off.
Brave New World.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Hi Paul,
Judging from the production still, it seems you are using the type of camera stand found in professional still photography studios, correct?If not, how did you get the camera to lay on its side, also, what were you using as an EVF? It looks like a phone.
Thanks,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
No. Bad idea. Too capital intensive. Equipment changes constantly. Rental gear gets abused by customers. You need a brick ‘n mortar presence. You must have employees which is a money drain. Security from break ins is a major issue. I could go on….
Plus, if you needed any more discouragement, Chicago already has a saturated rental market.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Chris,
I am not office-based, my car is my office, I’m a shooter in the field a lot. If I was a post type of guy, based in front of a computer, it would be much easier to do a lot of back and forth regarding details. Much of my client pre-pro and estimating communications is done pulling over, putting on my flashers and pecking an email. If I’m not too tired when I get home or if it’s a complex project, I do what you suggest. But something “simple” usually goes like this:
• Client calls, texts or emails: Are you available to do X on X date?
• Me: Yes
• Client: How much you think?
• Me: $X for me, if you want a soundman +$X, 2nd camera please add $X. Do you need any editing?
• Client: Answers yes or no about post. Usually tells me to pencil hold, firm hold or “We’ll get back to you.” (which usually means No)So if the project is Green Lit, I will ask some questions about logistics, what’s the nature of the set ups so I know how to pack, etc. It would not occur to me, especially if I am not given the post portion to say: “By the way, do you realize you can’t view my professional camera files?”
As a matter of fact: Whoever is given the post portion of the job, since they will be making the money on post, and because I am “just the DP”, the editor should be responsible for making viewable files, not me. This gig was 8.5 hours times two cameras. As the videographer my responsibilities are handing over a hard drive. My assumption is his last “video guys”, in his previous city, also had the post portion so they had no qualms about making him MP4s of very lengthy seminars. My deliverables, and I said this to him: “Please bring a Mac compatible hard drive so I can transfer the media to you, I will keep a safety copy for a few weeks.” To me, as the DP, that is the end of it. Unless I was given the post portion, I am finished and plan to invoice immediately.
Best,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Hey Tim,
Did you know that at Dave Chapelle’s come back tour shows everyone has to give up their phone on their way in? The artists are getting PO’s looking out and seeing everyone looking at their phones:
At Thanksgiving at my sister’s house she ask about seven of us to stand shoulder-to-shoulder for a group photo. She brings her phone up and naturally she is holding it vertical. It is the way it fits in one’s hand, especially a smaller female hand. We in the biz, of course we know better.
Now on the evening news you will see video shot by the public, often of some crime or disaster happening, and they’re 90% vertical. Perhaps that’s why the BBC went that way? You’ll notice that both sides of the 16×9 frame on your TV they will have a “continuation” of the video, out-of-focus, half tone opacity, as an abstract. So do this test: Next time you’re watching the news or America’s Funniest Home Videos (still my favorite show) and when a vertical video appears, once it is over ask the person sitting next to you who is NOT IN THE BIZ if they noticed anything about the sides of the frame. I do this to my wife, etc. all the time- They will NOT notice it. The public will naturally shoot vertical UNLESS for some reason they are holding their phone with two hands, then they might turn it on its side. Look for that. This is what I mean in case I’m not clear:
Long ago when 16×9 betacams first came out I resisted, after all, I had a fully paid off 4×3 betacam which had a crank on the side to print out money. A mega mall near me asked if I could shoot 16×9 and naturally I said yes, I figured I’d rent. Next they asked if there was a way I could “lay” the camera on its side so I could fill the frame, head-to-toe, of fashion models, one at a time. So I looked into it and unbelievably there was a heavy duty tripod head to rent that would lay a full size ENG or 35mm on its side. Of course the balance would be off and we had to sandbag the legs down, and it was awfully weird, but the mall wanted to mount 16×9 monitors VERTICALLY around the mall, sort of a precursor to what we now call digital signage, and they knew a standing humanoid fit great in a vertical 16×9 like cars do in its horizontal.
I don’t know how this will affect us, I think it’s more an issue for the editors.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
I think it’s because I’ve know so many guys named Terry than Todd? Maybe a 6:1 ratio.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
