[Luis Caffesse]

[sacci] “does anyone know if it will record DVCPro50 to the tape?”

The HVX200 will only record DV to tape.

All other formats are recorded to P2.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[eLeventy] “DVCpro50 = 50Mbps ( bit) = 6.25 MBps( byte)
DVCproHD = 100Mbps = 12.50 MBps “

I think part of the reason some people are getting confused on the datarate issue is due to the fact that since the HVX is recording to solid state there is no need to record duplicate frames the way the VariCam does to tape.

Because of that, the datarate in 720P mode can vary depending on the frame rate you are shooting at:

720P60 = 100Mbs
720P30 = 50Mbs
720P24 = 40Mbs

In 1080 mode, the camera should always carry a 100Mbs datarate.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Our current techology is 14 Bit DSP.”

Thanks for the reponse Jan.

Graeme, or someone else who would understands this technical minutia better than I do, could you give us a clear explanation of why a higher bit DSP is better for the final signal (considering DVCPro is an 8bit format)?

And, at what point would there be no noticable difference?
I mean, would we see a world of difference if we had a 16bit DSP, or a 32bit?
(you see what I’m getting at)

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[jeremiah black] “I’ve done both online and offline editing for Varicam (and Cinealta) footage, and I can tell you flat out, that mini-dv downconverts of DVCPRO HD look so much better than dv, that there’s no comparison.”

One thing to keep in mind is that generally you are comparing something shot on a 2/3″ chip camera with (probably) really good glass on it, with the footage we see from fixed lens cams with 1/3″ chips.

That’s one thing that makes the HVX so curious to me, it will be great (for once) to be able to compare these formats under completely controlled circumstances. No more quess work as to what difference the chips/glass are making, because we can shoot both on the same camera now (well, not now, but by the end of the year).

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[Graeme Nattress] “I’m sure that there will be new codecs in the future, but now is not the time. We have all the places of the DVCProHD workflow in place, and it would be daft to change that for this camera. I know it would make the quality better to distribute the bits better, but it would also then make this camera an islan”

Exactly my point Graeme, I couldn’t agree more.
Too bad I wasn’t as concise as you in expressing it.
🙂

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[jeremiah black] “But, I believe, the HVX200 won’t work with established NLEs as it is now.

It’s getting the NLE to recognize the P2 files that was the issue, not the codec itself, as far as I understand it. Avid, FCP, Canopus, and many others already support every variation of DVCPro. Let’s remember DVCProHD has been around for years. So, support was added now for these systems to recognize the P2 files as DVCPro encoded files. But the majority have already been able to handle the codec itself.

but those are issues outside the scope of my knowledge.

And mine too.

Also, using existing tape decks doesn’t really apply to my workflow, since I render all my footage out with a BlackMagic codec, 10 bit 4:4:4 uncompressed. Dumping it back to DVCPRO HD at that point just recompresses it. So for me, a new codec would be great, since I don’t ever see a DVCPRO HD deck, Except for capture, but P2 will take care of that problem nicely!

You may not use a tape deck in your workflow, but someone is mastering your work to tape at some point (unless they are going directly to a filmprint from you hard drive master). As much as most of us want to get rid of tape, it will still be around for quite a while. P2 is a step in the right direction for getting tape out of the aquisition stage, but the vast majority of projects will still be mastered onto tape for years.

I think (or hope) the HVX is giving us what could be the perfect solution for a transitional period as we go not only from SD to HD, but from tape to solid state recording. And the best way to make that transition is to do it through the use of an established codec, as opposed to trying to establish a new one (or a new variation). Just look at how many confusing issues are coming up over the use of HDV (granted, that’s a whole other discussion).

Maybe it’s different for movies, but I never master back onto the format the material was shot on. I guess for tv and stuff, it’s probably the norm. So, I’ll admit I’m probably in a minority here on this one.”

While it may not be the best idea, I think a lot of people do in fact master back to the same format.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

I think that changing the DVCProHD codec would bring other issues with it, and I for one am glad to see that Panasonic is using the established codec on the new camera. The HVX200 will shoot footage that will work seamlessly with established edit systems, and that can be mastered to (heaven forbid!) established tape formats on existing decks.

This wouldn’t be possible if the format were changed.
It’s the established post path that I find so appealing from the HVX200.
If they were to start fiddling with the codec, then essentially we’d be dealing with a new format. Then you’re in HDV territory, without a clear and established post workflow and equipment support.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[Rodrigo Lizana] “I

[Luis Caffesse]

[Rodrigo Lizana] “I really like to know (a good technical reason) why this camera is going to add the pulldown to the 1080p24 mode instead of using all the 100 mb/s bandwidth on the 24 frames per second.”

There is no provision in the DVCProHD spec for 1080P.
As an analogy, there is no provision in the DV spec for 24P.

So, in the same way that Panasonic added a pulldown to the DVX and carries the 24p footage in a 60i stream, they will add a pulldown to the 1080P24 footage on the HVX and carry it in a 1080i stream to be able to record it as DVCProHD on the HVX.

It is a limitation of the codec.
To be able to record 24 frame 1080P without the pulldown would have meant a new codec. Part of the advantage of the HVX200 is it’s use of an established coded with an established workflow and editing support.

The disadvantage of this, as you pointed out, is that 20% of storage space is used up to store pulldown frames that will eventually be removed.

I think that’s a small price to pay for 1080P24 footage.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[Terry A. Davis] “Is is possible to stream output of DVCPRO 25, 50 or HD out to the P2 Store directly from the camera for long shoots over USB 2.0?”

I’ve heard yes, and I’ve heard no (both from Panasonic reps).
I think the best answer to this is that we should wait a few months and see.
These details are hard to sort out when the capabilities of the camera haven’t been set in stone yet.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas