Which to buy?

[Pappasarts]

Thanks Sanjin!

JVC’s, option will add another choice and depending on needs it could be the choice over the Z1u . Whe the HVX200 hit’s the street in 5 or six months, by that time we have already seen the picture quality ( I am told maybe August at the earlist to see the HVX200 working ) adding another choice. One thing is very clear, you can’t go wrong with any of these three HD camera when there all out.

Here is an small article I wrote about the JVC GY-HD100u and AG-HVX200 I write about what JVC needs to do to stay in the game to a certain degree in the long run. Enjoy!

https://www.pbase.com/aghvx200/pappasarts_entertainment_

THIS ARTICLE CAN ALSO BE FOUND AT
https://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/jvcprohd/pappas5.php

Michael Pappas
https://www.pbase.com/ARRFILMS
https://www.PappasArts.com

[Rodrigo Lizana]

[Sanjin Jukic] “clearly holding up to comparisons to F900 CineAlta and even 35mm film. “

This is, by far, the most crazy thing i

[Sanjin Jukic]

Take it or leave it man, and crazy or not but just read more about it from F900 user like Jody. Or you are performing a sort of HD superman that hould look for another forum address?. Anyway have a look at Jody’s report again:

https://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=111420136623119&forumid=162

Sanjin Jukic

S J Digital Productions
https://www.sanjinjukic.com
sanjinjukic@yahoo.com
Vienna
Austria
Europe

[Luis Caffesse]

[Rodrigo Lizana] “I

[Graeme Nattress]

Indeed, any video format is “comparable” to any other video format, or film for that matter. I can compare VHS to DV, or DV to 35mm. To say that one format is comparable to another is pretty much meaningless. But let’s not argue semantics.

To say that HDV from the FX1 or Z1 is even in the same ball park as HDCAM is a serious joke, and indeed, in the print adverts that quote Jody, he does not say that. I’ll have to dig out the adverts in the magazines I picked up at NAB to quote for sure though.

The 720p24 from the new JVC does look better than the CF24 from the Z1, and, indeed, probably has a lot more “real” detail and definition than full 1080i from the Z1. Measured resolution on the Z1 is very much below that of HDCAM, and indeed, the picture does look significantly worse. To say otherwise would be lying.

To compre the Z1 fabourably to 35mm film is very funny indeed.

P2 is as revolutionary as the first NLEs. Remember that they were totally unaffordable, hard drives stored too little video and cost too much and they took forever to render. Now everyone uses NLEs.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Graeme Nattress]

“I went to a preprogrammed preset that gives a film look and let it go. Detail in teh highlights. Detail in the shadows. Practically no visible grain even at 12db (!) and still holding detail in the bright areas. Rich color. No bleeding in the reds. And great 24 frame motion artifacting (when selected). All in 1080i…..

…..No, this isn’t a replacement for the F900! That camera still gives you twice as sharp an image, much deeper color and detail, and far more control over gamma and other set ups. Plus critical lens control you need desperately in HD (if you’re out of focus everybody knows). But as a second camera or when you don’t want to lug in the F900 – … … – it’s a godsend.” Jody Eldred quoted in the BandPro advert p35 American Cinematographer April 2005.

compare with “when the Z1U… …clearly holding up to comparisons to F900 CineAlta and even 35mm film”.

Affordable HD seems worse than religion.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Jody Eldred]

“I went to a preprogrammed preset that gives a film look and let it go. Detail in teh highlights. Detail in the shadows. Practically no visible grain even at 12db (!) and still holding detail in the bright areas. Rich color. No bleeding in the reds. And great 24 frame motion artifacting (when selected). All in 1080i…..

…..No, this isn’t a replacement for the F900! That camera still gives you twice as sharp an image, much deeper color and detail, and far more control over gamma and other set ups. Plus critical lens control you need desperately in HD (if you’re out of focus everybody knows). But as a second camera or when you don’t want to lug in the F900 – … … – it’s a godsend.” Jody Eldred quoted in the BandPro advert p35 American Cinematographer April 2005.

compare with “when the Z1U… …clearly holding up to comparisons to F900 CineAlta and even 35mm film”.

Affordable HD seems worse than religion. ”

I guess it’s time for me to pipe in again and clarify whether or not I truly am some nutcase who believes that you can actually intercut 35mm film and F900 footage with that of a Z1U, and not appear to be a fool doing so.

So you don’t have to hunt for my bio on the web, I do own and operate an F900, and I have shot 35mm, and I own a Z1U (as well as D600 Betacam SP, PD150, etc.) I have worked on CBS’ primetime drama “J.A.G.” for 9 years, and CBS’ “N.C.I.S.” for both seasons thus far, both of which are boradcast in HD. I have shot first and second unit HDCAM with the F900, as well as with the Z1U, though boths shows shoot in film (JAG has just ended it’s run after 10 seasons.)

Yes, the producers of those highly rated shows with high production values and a great look (thanks largely to DP Billy Webb) have indeed– by their own choice– intercut my footage from the Z1U with 35mm, and yes it looked very good. You might have seen it and not known at all.

This posturing as to the ridiculousness of such a possibility is itself laughable. I suppose that until some of the posters here own and regualrly shoot with an F900 AND a Z1U and have that footage on primetime network dramas aired in HD, they just won’t believe it can be done. But it is being done, so get over it guys. It works fine. Remain calm. Do not panic.

It will never replace my F900 (as I’ve said a million times) but refuse to use it at your own peril. It doesn’t matter to me.

🙂

–Jody Eldred
Los Angeles

[Luis Caffesse]

[Jody] “This posturing as to the ridiculousness of such a possibility is itself laughable. I suppose that until some of the posters here own and regualrly shoot with an F900 AND a Z1U and have that footage on primetime network dramas aired in HD, they just won’t believe it can be done. But it is being done, so get over it guys. It works fine. Remain calm. Do not panic. “

Jody,

Thanks for adding to the discussion here.
It’s always much better to hear stuff form the source than a third party.

I think your quotes that started this discussion were taken out of context a bit, and quite honestly made your comments seem as ‘laughable’ as mine may seem to you. Your comments make a lot of sense though…I mean, who can really argue if it’s being done?

Like I said in my post earlier, quality isn’t in the specs, it’s in the eye of the beholder. And, in the end, it’s perceived quality that matters.
I suppose that signal goes through the wash pretty heavily by the time it’s broadcast. How do you feel the Z1 footage holds up against F900 straight off the tape? I think that’s what most people were reacting to…seeing as the quote we read was taken out of context.

And by the way, I think we’re all pretty calm here.
🙂

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Jody Eldred]

Luis said: “Thanks for adding to the discussion here.
It’s always much better to hear stuff form the source than a third party. I think your quotes that started this discussion were taken out of context a bit, and quite honestly made your comments seem as ‘laughable’ as mine may seem to you. Your comments make a lot of sense though…I mean, who can really argue if it’s being done? Like I said in my post earlier, quality isn’t in the specs, it’s in the eye of the beholder. And, in the end, it’s perceived quality that matters. I suppose that signal goes through the wash pretty heavily by the time it’s broadcast. How do you feel the Z1 footage holds up against F900 straight off the tape? I think that’s what most people were reacting to…seeing as the quote we read was taken out of context. And by the way, I think we’re all pretty calm here. 🙂 “

Hi Luis,

Compared to some of the rabid postings in many other forums, you guys are fairly comatose!

😉

To respond, I’m not so certain the signal goes through the wash so bad by the time it’s broadcast. It looks pretty darn good at my house on HD (off the air and on DirecTV HD) Certainly not as good as in the HD edit bay watching uncompressed on a $40,000 HD CRT montor, but that’s not reality, as you and I know. If the signal was deteriorated, then then F900 footage would look worse, as would the already slightly-less-impacting Z1U footage, but the quality “distance” between the two would remain the same.

I have looked at the F900 vs. Z1U footage on that monitor in that edit bay, and they both really look terrific. There is more color depth and information, more richness in the F900 footage, of course. (My editor also is a DP and DIT with the F900, and has regularly works for LucasFilms– including today. He thinks the Z1U footage is truly remarkable and is constantly surprised at how beautiful it looks, compared to their F900/3.)

The question really is, “Does the Z1U produce images that are worthy of broadcast in HD or transfer to film?” That is authoritatively answerable by persons at networks who decide to air it, and film distributors and theater owners who decide to screen films shot with the Z1U. It’s their call, not mine. They are airing it and there are films in the pipeline already, by the way.

I can say (with authority) that the camera looks really, really good, and I will be intercutting it with footage I shoot with my F900 for documentaries and other programs. (Not to toot my horn, but I’ve recently won an Emmy for my work as a cameraman and received a DGA nomination as best documentary director, so folks generally do seem to like my work.) That’s not to say it’s right for everyone, but it’s sure been working for me so far.

Everyone needs to make their own choices. But if so many people are thrilled with what this tool (the Z1U) can do for them, and it’s getting airtime on networks in primetime in HD, and rave reviews from people at the top of the food chain who are actually using it in Hollywood on a daily basis, then what’s the point in dismissing it on grounds of technical specifications, supposed MPEG artifacting (which I have yet to see), etc. , etc.?

Just like folks who still think the F900 is so inferior to film, yet refuse to accept the fact that great visual filmmakers like Michael Mann, George Lucas, Robert Rodriguez and James Cameron absolutely LOVE shooting in HD… are those critics’ work so far superior to those filmmakers’ that they can make such cavalier comments? Have they earned that right to be so stubborn? Something to think about…

Everyone has a right to his or her opinion… but that does not mean that opinion is the best one to embrace just because it’s theirs!

“Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.” (Proverbs 13:10)

Choose your advisors wisely.

🙂

–Jody Eldred

[Toke]

I’m not sure how well this F900 & ZU1 talk fits in this P2 group, but Jody have you shot any documentary with ZU1?
How do you like its sensitivity?
Do you see or care about compression artifacts in shots with complex movement?
(Handheld, water, fog, etc…)

Don’t you see any problems with their resolving powers?
ZU1 with progressive picture delivers about same amount of lines than progressive PAL camera.