[Jerry Smith]

UPDATE:

I used ffprobe on the mp4 that I get from Adobe and it says something about rec709. But I changed the matrix from 709 to 601 and voila, the stream looks good.

So, it seems it some sort of gamma issue with Azure streaming.

But oddly if I convert to HLS locally and upload that to dumb storage, then the videos are again too dark.

So it seems there are gamma problems in other places also.

At least I have a workaround (#985). 😉

[Jerry Smith]

Andrew, I just noticed your response to the older post.

I’m not interested in different browsers/computers. I can limit myself to just one of my computers. Take your pick. If I play the video locally through my browser, it looks one way. If I instead stream or progressively download it from Azure, then it looks another way. And I as I said above, this happens even if I bypass Azure’s encoding.

There is a tiny chance that my online player, Bitmovin, is tweaking gamma, but they don’t seem to discuss color spaces at all, so I tend to doubt they are responsible. Most likely, Azure is assuming my video is Rec709 when it is really sRGB. Somehow I have to embed a profile. But Adobe seems to give me now way to embed a profile.

This all seems quite absurd. Why can’t I just add the metadata?? Oh, by the way, this is sRGB!! Or convert it and then say, oh, by the way this is Rec709? Adobe has a zillion color space settings for import and working, but very little for outputs.

If I could tag my videos, then I could do some experiments (empiricist that I am) with Azure and probably not even have to waste anybody’s time.

To repeat: How on earth can I embed the color space? Surely, somebody, somewhere can do it. I think my question is very very clear.

[Jerry Smith]

The encoder is the Azure Standard Encoder. *What’s really annoying is that even if I skip encoding and just add a manifest to an mp4, it changes the color. Support will contact me today.*

I gave up on profiling and just did a lot of device testing. We’re only interested in playback in browsers. I looked at the results in many different browsers. I went to the store and looked for the “median” monitor. The one that was most similar to all the others.

It probably is a gamma issue.

My question is about exporting. My hope was that if I put mp4s with encoded color profiles into Azure then all would work. But I cannot find any practicable way to encode color profiles in outputs except for tiff sequences that have no audio and require God knows what workaround.

In Bridge, when I look at the Metadata, there does not seem to be anyway to get a color profile to appear. And research on the internets indicates that no Adobe product (AE, Pr, AME) actually delivers outputs with embedded profiles for sRGB or Rec709 or for animation. Maybe audioless sequences are the exception.

Is there a way to export with a color profile?

If I could export with media tagged with sRGB, then that might make Azure happy.

If I could export with media converted to Rec709 and tagged with 709, then that might make Azure happy.

(I have a related question about Adobe, but I don’t want to over complicate the discussion.)

In general, their are two tendencies in these color discussion. The rationalists push for deep understanding of one of the most arcane subjects in media. The empiricists push for lots of testing. I’m firmly in the latter camp. I just need to get things working. Even if I understood it all, I’d forget it in a week.

How can I get color space tags on my videos? That is the only question that will allow me to figure out what Azure wants. Adobe really seems useless. Am I wrong? If not, then can I do it with FFMPEG?

Thanks Andrew for taking the time.

[Jerry Smith]

It’s bloatware. It’s by far the worst software I’ve ever seen. Those who think it is fine probably have limited experience with other software. A lot of software is actually bad these days. But the CC is by far the worst.

These companies need to redesign what they have all the time in order to fuel the hype.

But with so many “features” the number of bugs grows exponentially.

Add to that the insanity of developers communicating over chat boxes/email.

The loyal customer is the one who gets screwed.

It’s a huge cloud of migranes. Always lets me down.

I know it doesn’t answer your specific question. But it’s a general feature of Adobe’s “business model”. In 20 years it will be the same. Only even worse.

[Jerry Smith]

Anybody?

[Jerry Smith]

Hey Dave,

I’m not too worried about any of it anymore. But I’m not talking about my monitors. If I use a color meter on the receptionist’s monitor, I’ll get the same values for the css across browsers. For example, the grey around this reply box on Cow is #E7E7E7. I don’t understand why I get different values for the video across browsers.

[Jerry Smith]

Thanks All.

@Joseph: I’m still a bit confused as to why monitor calibration should matter. If I use the color meter to measure the css colors, then I get the same readings. Why shouldn’t a video with an embedded ICC profile give me the same readings? I get that one uncalibrated monitor will look different from another. And they often do even for css. But I don’t get why videos should diverge. Actually, I originally thought this thread was going to be more along the lines of: Why is Firefox different? And indeed, it does seem to be the biggest outlier and it does seem to be the one getting the most complaints. But then I noticed that they all diverge. What often happens in browser land is often Chrome and Safari behave similarly since they are both webkit browsers.

[Jerry Smith]

Have any of you seen this before?

[Jerry Smith]

Thanks Dave,

I see!!! That’s saving me so much!!!

I’m trying to minimize file size to minimize bandwidth. It doesn’t help that there are big differences in what CDNs charge for video. And it’s all linear. Shave off 50%, save 50%. Could be a couple thousand dollars!

[Jerry Smith]

I meant in the case of this particular video. I don’t know exactly where the video will be displayed; that’s sorta what gives my question some BITE! Yes, I’ve been using 2pass VBR. In general, the quality has been very good without artifacts. So, I’m sorta trying to see how small I can make the file.

Here’s a related question that you Cassius might know something about: when does YouTube decide to show the 720p rather than the 1080p because of insufficient bandwidth?