Häakon
Forum Replies Created
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Jan,
My battery hinges busted too (I had no idea it was such a widespread problem), but I took it in for service and Panasonic repaired it under warranty. The receipt slip indicates that the warranty covers one such instance of this problem and future requests for service will come on my dime. So the good news is that they did fix it, the bad news is that if it ever happens again it will cost me – and seeing that they just replaced it with the same part, it’s certainly not unbelievable that it may happen again. Anyway, that’s the scoop.
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[Walter Graff] “I would not use the term “claim to fame” as much as would use the term “gimmick”. I own a varicam. I shoot lots of video with it and rarely if ever is variable frame rate useful or necessary.”
True 24 frames-per-second progressive footage on a DV tape is their claim to fame, not the variable framerate function. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I wouldn’t be so hard on the AJ-HPC2000 if at least offered 24p. It doesn’t even do that.
[Walter Graff] “For this camera as someone pointed out the literature can’t seem to decide if this camera is for filmmaking or for broadcast, but when you look at the facts it’s a broadcast camera anyway you slice it.”
Well of course it is, with no 24p option. But why not give customers the power to choose? It would be so easy to implement both worlds in one camera it’s not even funny. The HVX already does it! Unfortunately, that camera suffers from a very small CCD block that limits the usability of its picture. Yet, in a crazed effort to protect their upper end, the 2/3″ options (or even worse, 1/2″ in the case of the Sony) are intentionally limited and lacking of features. That’s where Panasonic is getting it wrong, that’s where Sony is getting it wrong, and that’s the only reason people like Jannard’s RED idea are even popping up these days – because we keep getting the run around from the “big” companies.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Panasonic isn’t physically able to deliver a 2/3″ CCD camera, today, that shoots to P2 and offers 1080i/720p, 24p, and variable framerates. You know it and I know it. And the AJ-HPC2000 should be that camera. My guess is their “Varicam II” is already very well in the works, and by offering the HPC2000 at a sub-30K pricepoint, they can then turn around and offer the “Varicam II” (which does everything we really need it to) at a substantially higher cost. As we all know, however (again, considering all this stuff is already packed into the HVX), it’s nothing more than the software that allows the camera to shoot in 24p, multiple framerates, give you that cinegamma look, etc. By leaving that functionality out, they can warrant charging more money for a similar product that doesn’t cost them any more to make. There are no longer excuses of “the camera costs $20,000 more because the DVCPRO HD deck has so many more moving parts and it’s just so expensive to make!” Look at the differences between the two XDCAM HD models available – one costs thousands more and essentially the only difference is that the “variable framerate” function in the software is enabled in one of the cameras. The 350 doesn’t cost any more for Sony to manufacture; they’re just taking advantage of the fact that they can jack up the price on one model by “crippling” the other.
The real problem, however, is not that they’re being greedy with their pricing structures (which they are), but rather they aren’t even offering the models we really want – high priced or not. Where is Sony’s 2/3″ XDCAM HD model? Where is Panny’s 24p model? Both companies have already made those technologies available in tape-based cameras, yet all of a sudden their tapeless solutions are taking huge steps backward. If Panasonic really wants people to buy into the P2 concept and Sony wants people to buy into “Professional Disc,” they had better start making some P2 and XDCAM cameras that don’t skimp on features – especially at these kinds of prices.
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I’m not touting the HVX over any of the other cameras in this range; I’m well aware of the macroblock issues the HVX has and I have been very outspoken about this very issue on other forums. This topic however is not discussing the HVX or any of the HDV cameras at all, it is discussing the AJ-HPC2000 and XDCAM HD offerings – both of which you yourself have called “professional” models on other forums and should be looked at as such considering their price points. Please read the topic titles before you post.
The reason the consumer is getting screwed is because both of these new cameras are skimping on features that they’ve already released in other flavors previously, simply to protect their upper lines. The Panasonic camera has no variable framerates and doesn’t even offer 24p – the single biggest claim to fame they have in the last five years. If the $6,000 HVX can do both 24p AND selectable framerates, then their new $30,000 offering darn well ought to as well. To use your analogy, they have now offered a Dodge Neon with a four cylinder engine, and it seems pretty rediculous to announce a brand new Hemi at five times the price with half the features (yet that’s exactly what they’re doing). I don’t think these are really concepts you can argue. Well, we know you like to argue, but they can’t be argued effectively at any rate…
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Depends on who you ask.
I’ve heard the equivalent of 320 ASA being thrown around by a couple people, but that’s just a number. In my tests, it has performed 1 1/2 – 2 stops slower than my DVX100A. Best thing to do is test it yourself in a controlled environment and see if it meets your needs. Good luck to you.
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I never quite understood why anyone concerned with quality would choose variable bitrate over a constant one. Of course if you forced a constant rate then compared to the celing level of the same bitrate calculated variably you’d end up with larger files – but using up more space is a tradeoff for the benefits of less compression (and thus, higher quality). Since cameras like the HVX are already using codecs at up to 100mbps, shooting full, constant bitrates at levels of 35 or less shouldn’t even be an issue.
Their SD XDCAM has an option of recording at a 50mbps datarate – and we only get 35 for an image four times the size? All of these companies are skimping on specs to protect their high end lines – and it’s the consumer that’s getting screwed.
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I have been asking the same questions for years…
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[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “The AG-HVX200 is not a noisy camera. It has a noise level that is to be expected from a 1/3” HD imager. In fact it is quieter than most of its competition.
[Taylor Wigton, DP] and [Rodney Charters, ASC; DP of Fox’s “24”] “[In our four-camera HD/V shootout] we did find the HVX200 the noisiest of the cameras. The fact that it has fewer pixels means more noise and lower resolution, but less heat.
Perhaps it’s not a simple task to determine exactly just what should be expected from a 1/3″ chip camera today, especially with numerous options and competitive products of different technologies saturating the marketplace. However, I would recommend doing extensive testing for yourself before buying a camera based on manufacturer claims. Professionals in the industry have voiced opinions on the camera quite different from the soundbytes Panasonic has put forth.
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My prediction is that it will record in 1080 24p using pulldown just like the HVX, as it would be foolish at this point to release a new camera without 24p support. Panasonic should be well aware of this by now.
I’m guessing that 1080p isn’t stated in the specs because the DVCPROHD codec doesn’t support it natively. To be compatible with all of the current DVCPROHD decks and equipment in use, they’re going to have to continue to conform to that. However, there is always a workaround – and the “advanced” pulldown mechanism they’ve used on the DVX (and now the HVX) has served them very well as the solution.
Of course, I could be wrong – I’ve noticed there has been no mention of variable framerates in the press release for this camera (and no mention or comparison to “Varicam” either), so perhaps there’s still another “big brother” camera to this one in the works. I’m really hoping, however, that this press release is just a bit thin on details and simply doesn’t cover all of the features the camera offers. They only wrote two sentences about it in total (and only one of them dealing with the feature spec).
Panasonic is still hungry for P2 adoption, and the way to gain support now is to offer a 2/3″ HVX, basically. With support for 1080/24p and variable framerates, along with removable lenses and a 2/3″ imaging system, there’s no question in my mind that a camera with those specs would be the one to beat – P2 nonwidthstanding. If they skimp out on the 24p and the variable framerates, it’s just going to leave the consumer wanting more and throw a ton of support to XDCAM (which does support 24p, and would be the deciding factor for tons of users regardless of the lower bitrate codec that XDCAM uses).
I think the whole reason that Jim Jannard’s “Red” concept even exists is because people are tired of only getting “some” of the solution in these cameras. At this point in the game, people want (and are expecting) everything. And frankly, we’re at the point that it’s completely possible and feasible to offer 1080p24, variable framerates, solid state recording, and interchangeable lenses in one system. Not just a few of those features, but all of them. I don’t think anyone’s knocking down doors for ridiculous features yet like 4K resolution or 35mm-sized CCDs. All of the features I listed are already available in one camera or another; we’re just simply holding our breath for one camera that finally brings everything together.
I really hope this new camera delivers on all of those fronts; my personal feeling is that it’s the only way they’re going to be able to gain that incredibly sought-after widespread P2 support they need. As it stands, the camera doesn’t even ship for almost 9 months and XDCAM is delivering much sooner.
Do the right thing Panasonic, and don’t let us down!
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David,
Your points about the rental situation are somewhat valid, but I wasn’t aware that “rental” was this camera’s main market. I’d rent a F900 and I’d rent a Varicam, but I’d buy an HVX. Isn’t that the point? You can now own HD technology for what it cost you to rent it for a week one year ago. The P2 solution for me just seals the deal, as the camera AND stock costs are now covered for my entire run of shooting in the coming year and the only additional cost I’m going to incur by going this route is the price of a few DVD-Rs (pennies) to archive my footage. That’s it. To me, that’s huge.
Although I don’t have to get my material “on the air the same day,” I still appreciate P2’s no-capture approach significantly. I shot a documentary in July on DV and ended up with 50 hours of footage. Instead of being able to sit down and start getting creative, I had to take an entire week’s worth of time just to get the material onto a hard drive. Not only is that incredibly time consuming, but it’s draining and monotonous.
I’m definitely not saying P2 is bulletproof, nor is it for everyone. But I think that a lot of the concerns that many people seem to have are really minor issues or problems that can be avoided or solved without great difficulty. The low capacity is an issue – especially for people in the field or doing event work – but beyond that, there isn’t much to criticize. At least I don’t think there is. Put another way, the benefits strongly outweigh any detriments that the system presents.
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[David Battistella] ”
How do you handle out of town clients who might be getting on an aircraft at the end of a shooting day?Have your unloader make a 1:1 backup on DVD-R after he copies the files over to the PC. You should be doing this anyway for your archival/backup purposes.
[David Battistella] ”
How much time do you save against digitizing vs. making backups of the media?About 2x, and it’s moved to the back of the workflow instead of the front – which means you can start editing and get your product out to the client faster. That can only mean good news for you and the client.
[David Battistella] “What will you do with your P2 cards when removable media disk based cameras (ieHD XDCAM) become the widespread standard?
Keep using it. Unlike tapes, film, XDCAM, or any other disposable media that you must keep buying continually, the P2 system will last the lifetime of your camera. That’s the entire point. Buy one card and you never have to buy stock again. Doesn’t matter if P2 as a container fades over time; as long as you have the camera and a P2 card, you’re all set.
Perhaps a better question would be “what will you do with the HVX by the time DVCPROHD is phased out?” since it’s the codec that’s replacable, not P2. And by the time that happens the camera will already be outdated.
[David Battistella] “P2 can fly if it is rapidly accepted and that has not really happend except for a few “closed shop” news gathering organizations.
P2 hasn’t been given the chance to be “rapidly accepted” because up until now, you had to spend $20K+ for a camera that could use it. Now that it’s in a $6K, handheld package, a lot more people are going to be interested. The preorder demand for the camera is already staggering and unlike any other camcorder product launch I can recall by memory…
[David Battistella] “The stock arguement only works in places that reuse stock until the have to repurchase (NEWS GATHERING).
What kind of nonsense is that? I’m not a news gatherer, I’m an independent narrative-based filmmaker. Not having to pay for any stock ever again AND never having to capture/digitize my data is HUGE. The limited run-time of the cards right now is not a concern as there is always plenty of time in between setups to offload/format the cards. It’s no different than changing magazines of film.I’m not really concerned about convincing anyone about the superior workflow advantages, because that concept will be widely understood and accepted in a couple of months when the production levels of the camera have made it accessible enough for everyone that wants one. I don’t know a single person who’s shot on P2 that hasn’t proclaimed that they’ll never shoot on tape again – regardless of their style workflow. It just makes SENSE.