[Daryl K davis]

Thanks everyone for everything. I guess we’ll how it all works out with this RED camera system. Seems like my whole post history has been one of trial and tribulation… from my first HDCAM 24p MOW in 2002 through to FCP edited 35mm 3-perf to DI features (which there is still no easy formula to do as Cinema Tools does great neg-cut lists but no DI lists).

Wish me luck,

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Daryl K davis]

Yes, thank you, I have been on the Red User forum and yes I agree everything with thie RED/FCP workflow is a work in progress. It just seems that everything there is related to short tests and such.

The main reason I’m enquiring here is that a Producer (who just acquired a camera) asked me if it is a viable option to proceed on his next feature (shooting starting March 1) with this camera. He’s interested in how does the workflow stack up to shooting 35mm 3-perf, and all the details. The DP also just received his own camera but is still away on vacation for a couple weeks and has not even done his own tests with it yet. (Needless to say they are thinking 2-camera shoot here).

Being this is low-budget (less than 5 million) I will probably edit and post-supervise myself. I guess I’m just wondering if there has been an actual movie done completely through with the RED camera. Most people I know have only used it for effects shots.

Just putting the questions out there for any thoughts. Thanks.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Daryl K davis]

We always create our final HD master in 23.98. That is the Universal Mastering Format. You can create other HD delivery masters from that and also all subsequent PAL and NTSC standard def delivery masters. You may also want to check with your distributor to see all possible deliverables that need to be made.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Daryl K davis]

I should also mention that there is nothing that makes a DP madder than to show them this specific deliverable line in the contract, especially if the project is 2:35, they just roll their eyes.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Daryl K davis]

4×3 HD master – in addition to 16:9 HD master – is standard on all distribution deliverable lists I’ve seen for long form projects.

Mostly – I’m told – it’s to have a backup HD in case another full frame standard-def downconvert is needed down the road so they don’t have to do an entire pan and scan session. Also, they still do full-frame DVD that are mastered from HD. Check your local video rental place and they still have 4×3 DVD’s on the shelves.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Daryl K davis]

I wouldn’t recommend using the camera as a capture deck. Even though the camera does play back for quick reviews of shots and such, the transport mechanism is not as robust as a playback deck and also, the constant shuttling and pre-rolling could be hard on your tape.

Renting a deck would be my first suggestion.

On all the movies I’ve done that have been shot on the F900 (of which there is usually 40 to 60 hours of footage), the HD tapes were downconverted to DVCAM and off-line edited to get the cut locked, then on-lined using edl and the original HDcam tapes, keeping close notes on the speed changes and such. As for Visual FX – each project is so different as I’m aware – but ususally I deal with those elements seperately once I’ve determined how they will be managed from screening the off-line footage and doing a bit of prepping with that footage.

In the 8 or so MOW’s and 50-60 TV episodics I’ve done, this system works well for me. Perhaps your project has different considerations than what I’m used to. I guess that’s what this forum is for though. Many ways to skin a cat.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Daryl K davis]

A-frame capture is for removing pull-down to give proper cadence for editing in a 23.98 timeline. Batch capture lists generated from a telecine log has each clip start capture on an A-frame – that is a frame ending in 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 in the timecode.

You haven’t mentioned how you captured footage for your project. Evidently you didn’t use the telecine logs and create batch capture lists from there. Did you reverse telecine your clips and edit your project in a 23.98 timeline?

These are processes explained in the FCP manual, and telecine logs have been used in most pro edit systems for years, whatever the brand or make.

[Daryl K davis]

A-frame capture is for removing pull-down to give proper cadence for editing in a 23.98 timeline. Batch capture lists generated from a telecine log has each clip start capture on an A-frame – that is a frame ending in 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 in the timecode.

You haven’t mentioned how you captured footage for your project. Evidently you didn’t use the telecine logs and create batch capture lists from there. Did you reverse telecine your clips and edit your project in a 23.98 timeline?

These are processes explained in the FCP manual, and telecine logs have been used in most pro edit systems for years, whatever the brand or make.

[Daryl K davis]

I’m sorry about the confusion in the terminology but I’ve always understood a transfer list to be the list for re-transferring the select film negative to an HD master or DI finish. But if you don’t need that then don’t bother with the telecine log/Cinema Tools databasing.

If all they need is a C-mode edl they should be able to sort that from your fcp A-mode edl. Almost every online facility I’ve ever dealt with has edl management software of some sort for that purpose alone.

There is no edl mode transfer options in FCP as I’ve discovered yet – only A-mode.

[Daryl K davis]

I hate to sound harsh but you should have done your homework before you started editing the project. How did you create your batch capture lists in the first place? That is what the telecine logs are for. They help track your film keycodes, videotape timecodes and audio tapes and timecodes and ensure your tape nubers are correct and you do a proper A-frame capture.

If you didn’t pay any attention to them it could be rather complicated. You should definately get those files off the floppy discs and into your computer and create your Cinema Tools database to begin with. Then it’s a question of if you named your reels properly when yo4 batch captured your footage.