F900 project, what’s best / cheapest option to capture/edit on my G5?

[Michael Sacci]

Unless you have the wrong camera listed the Sony F900 is a HDCAM camera so you need an HDCAM deck.

That being said the DVCProHD offers a good compromise for image quality and storage space and speed. A lot of bang for the bucks. Of course you do take a quality hit but there are those of us out there that accept it and it reduces the budget rather nicely also. The other option to go up a in quality but still be within your system is to use ProRes but you would have to find a IoHD to rent (or a Mac Pro just for capture)

SDI has no TC but all decks at this level have RS422 to control the deck and feel in the TC.

[Shane Ross]

[Bryan R] “I planned to get 4 500 gig SATA drives setup internally as I have done on previous features that were shot on Varicam, via my sata controller card to handle storage.”

This will really only be good for working with DVCPRO HD and perhaps uncompressed 8-bit HD. But not really recommended for onlining at full res. This will be fine for offline cutting, but if you want to online this show as well (you REALLY ought to look at the offline/online workflow for this as the F900 is an HDCAM, not XDCAM camera) then you should look into external RAID storage, like the CalDigit HD Pro, or Dulce Systems ProDQ…or even eSATA solutions like the S2VR HD or Sonnet 500p or Dulce systems again…

[Bryan R] “1) If they want me to capture footage – is it true that I would need either to rent an xdcam deck or use the f900 itself hooked up through a capture card like the Declink HD Pro (I think that would be my cheapest option?) using the SDI connection to capture footage that has accurate TC?”

Yes. And again, this is an HDCAM camera, not XDCAM. You can rent the J-30 HDCAM player, that has SDI out. And yes, the Black-Magic card (get the Decklink EXTREME) will be fine for this. And also, capture the footage as DVCPRO HD for offlining, to conserve space, then online at 10-bit uncompressed later. Or better yet, have a post facility do it for you, so they can color correct as well.

[Bryan R] “2) Because I’m running a now somewhat aging 2.3 dual core g5 and plan to use non raided SATA Drives, I would need to capture and edit using DVCPRO HD?”

Yes…as I just said…I shoulda looked at this question first…hee

[Bryan R] “3) When the film is onlined from DVCPRO HD that I’ve edited in FCP back to XDCAM or whatever format they choose – will everything recapture properly? Will my effects like freeze frames or slow motion etc. transfer properly?”

Yes, things will. Freeze Frames and speed changes might offer some issues, but the way to make sur everything is working is to export a self contained QT movie of your finished offline cut, and make sure that the TC reader filters is on all the clips…then put that on the top layer of the timeline as reference, to make sure each frame is good.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Bryan Roberts]

Uh, that must have been crack in my pipe last night instead of bubble solution – I don’t know why I thought the f900 was xdcam.

Thanks so much guys – I should have specified, I definitely have no intention of onlining the show on my aging 2.3 dual core g5, especially since they want to go Davinci for CC but in the past if there have been any issues, the post house always blames me since I prefer to cut in FCP so I have to solve most of their onlining issues (and I’m not talking about small mom and pops operations, cough, level3, cough).

So, if I capture directly out of the f900, does it not send any TC? Do only the HDCAM decks do this? If this is the case then I definitely shouldn’t capture this way since it’ll most definitely be onlined at some point and obviously I’ll need frame accurate TC to online with…

One more question that seems self evident at first but could be a wrinkle – I will verify but I can only assume they shot 1080p24 on the f900 so then do I use the final cut capture setting of: DVCPROHD 1080pa24 or DVCPROHD 720p24 keeping in mind I want my text and effects to transfer the best when everything is onlined?

Thanks as always!

[Shane Ross]

[Bryan R] “I will verify but I can only assume they shot 1080p24 on the f900 so then do I use the final cut capture setting of: DVCPROHD 1080pa24 or DVCPROHD 720p24 keeping in mind I want my text and effects to transfer the best when everything is onlined?”

Well, how will it be onlined? You said you aren’t doing it, and a DaVinci from *cough* Level 3 *cough* isn’t doing it…it only color corrects. So…who is onlining? How? FilmLook is like 2 blocks away and they have FCP setups and are capable of onlining the show, iffin you are interested. Just to point out someone close. They also have a DaVinci for color correction, but I understand wanting to go with a certain company/colorist for the job…absolutely.

I ask this, because any text that is created in FCP is re-created at the high resolution when you online. But are you talking graphcs from another vendor, something done in After Effects and exported at 1080, or something you do in Motion at 1080?

I myself would cut at 720p24 and scale the graphics down (just by shrinking them in the timeline) and rendering so that you see what they look like…and that will look fine. And when you online, the graphics will stay the same.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Daryl K davis]

I wouldn’t recommend using the camera as a capture deck. Even though the camera does play back for quick reviews of shots and such, the transport mechanism is not as robust as a playback deck and also, the constant shuttling and pre-rolling could be hard on your tape.

Renting a deck would be my first suggestion.

On all the movies I’ve done that have been shot on the F900 (of which there is usually 40 to 60 hours of footage), the HD tapes were downconverted to DVCAM and off-line edited to get the cut locked, then on-lined using edl and the original HDcam tapes, keeping close notes on the speed changes and such. As for Visual FX – each project is so different as I’m aware – but ususally I deal with those elements seperately once I’ve determined how they will be managed from screening the off-line footage and doing a bit of prepping with that footage.

In the 8 or so MOW’s and 50-60 TV episodics I’ve done, this system works well for me. Perhaps your project has different considerations than what I’m used to. I guess that’s what this forum is for though. Many ways to skin a cat.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[David Roth weiss]

[Bryan R] “2) Because I’m running a now somewhat aging 2.3 dual core g5 and plan to use non raided SATA Drives, I would need to capture and edit using DVCPRO HD?”

Bryan,

Inquiring minds want to know, why would you choose not to raid your SATA drives???

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[Sean Oneil]

Find an online facility that has Final Cut. Or do it yourself (you might as well since you’re going to capture from the HDCam tapes). Otherwise you’re just wasting time and money having someone else manually re-create your effects.

Furthermore, if you are going to rent a deck, then it really is a no-brainer. Online it yourself. It’s easy. That’s it. Since someone else is color correcting it, it’s easy. You just need a Blackmagic HD and some cheap hard drives.

Honestly, you probably could get away with onlining 8-bit Uncompressed with your current drives (if you stripe them in RAID-0 and don’t fill them up). But if you don’t want to get a new card or set up an external RAID, you can buy four new SATA drives that use this new technology (perpendicular something or other). This makes them almost twice as fast as previous 7200rpm drives (70-80MBs per disk). Any SATA drive 750GB or larger has this technology. Four of these will surely be all you’ll need.

[Bryan Roberts]

[QUOTE=Shane Ross]Well, how will it be onlined? You said you aren’t doing it, and a DaVinci from *cough* Level 3 *cough* isn’t doing it…it only color corrects. So…who is onlining? How? FilmLook is like 2 blocks away and they have FCP setups and are capable of onlining the show, iffin you are interested. Just to point out someone close. They also have a DaVinci for color correction, but I understand wanting to go with a certain company/colorist for the job…absolutely.[/QUOTE]

This is not up to me. I have worked with Filmlook on several Lionsgate releases and their colorist (can’t remember his name off hand) was a really nice guy – they got the job done and always without a hitch. I’m a fan of them but in my experience producers and directors are always drawn to bigger names like a Matchframe, Level3, Plastercity etc. so they pass when I suggest Filmlook – oh and how did you know Filmlook was so close to me? 🙂

720p24 is what I was thinking in my head as well. All my effects are always done within FCP – I like to keep it local in one program and find myself seldom limited with the type of effects I need (freeze frames, moving boxes, the ever important camera flashes are covered with good plugins, color correction tools go a long way as well). So when you say scale down, do you mean create any text that I need in a 1080 timeline and then copy those over to my 720p timeline? When its on lined to 1080 would these then just enlarge?

[QUOTE=daryl k davis]I wouldn’t recommend using the camera as a capture deck. Even though the camera does play back for quick reviews of shots and such, the transport mechanism is not as robust as a playback deck and also, the constant shuttling and pre-rolling could be hard on your tape.

Renting a deck would be my first suggestion.[/QUOTE]

I couldn’t agree more – but this is not up to me. The DP owns a couple of F900’s apparently and they may choose to save the deck rental cost and try to capture using the cams, I really don’t know what their plan is but was just trying to get all the post options locked in my head before going in and hearing their plan.

[QUOTE=David Roth Weiss]Inquiring minds want to know, why would you choose not to raid your SATA drives???[/QUOTE]

Well honestly, I had a firewire scare with a Graid Terabyte drive about 1.5 years ago that I posted about my bad experience with that company way back when and since then I’ve been more wary of drive failure. When I can, I like to keep drive storage as simple and stable as possible.

[QUOTE=Sean ONeil]Honestly, you probably could get away with onlining 8-bit Uncompressed with your current drives (if you stripe them in RAID-0 and don’t fill them up). But if you don’t want to get a new card or set up an external RAID, you can buy four new SATA drives that use this new technology (perpendicular something or other). This makes them almost twice as fast as previous 7200rpm drives (70-80MBs per disk). Any SATA drive 750GB or larger has this technology. Four of these will surely be all you’ll need.[/QUOTE]

I prob could, it seems extremely straight forward – take clips offline and then recapture in FCP at the full resolution and quality based on the TC. But I don’t know if I would want to commit myself to on lining my first feature with this project given the larger size of the budget they have – any snags that cause me to explain why there are delays or problems would be pretty much non-acceptable.

[Shane Ross]

[Bryan R] “This is not up to me. I have worked with Filmlook on several Lionsgate releases and their colorist (can’t remember his name off hand) was a really nice guy – they got the job done and always without a hitch. I’m a fan of them but in my experience producers and directors are always drawn to bigger names like a Matchframe, Level3, Plastercity etc. so they pass when I suggest Filmlook”

Isn’t that ALWAYS the case. Producers…I just don’t get them at times…

[Bryan R] “oh and how did you know Filmlook was so close to me? :)”

I just know where Level 3 is (across from NBC and LENO) and know that FilmLook is right there too…next to Dick Clark Productions. Dang..>i know the guy who runs the place, but I too am forgetting the colorist. And worked on a bunch of shows I did…

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[David Roth weiss]

[Bryan R] “Well honestly, I had a firewire scare with a Graid Terabyte drive about 1.5 years ago that I posted about my bad experience with that company way back when and since then I’ve been more wary of drive failure. When I can, I like to keep drive storage as simple and stable as possible.”

Bryan,

Its understandable that firewire drives made you wary. Firewire drives are among the least robust and untrustworthy drives because of the bridge board necessary to run them. However, SATA drives are perhaps the most robust, stable and troublefree drives ever manufactured, and without the bridge board. By not striping your SATA drives you are losing vast RT performance in FCP, especially when editing HD, and in many other ways emasculating your powerful MacPro.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.