[Andrew Kimery]

After some amateur sleuthing, here is my 2 cents.

First, the TM is usually placed after the mark and in the upper right (which make sense because we read english left to right). By it being in the lower left I think someone just put it there because when they see logos they usually see a “TM” next to them.

Secondly, the TM is for unregistered trademarks so I think you can put a TM next to pretty much anything in an attempt to signify ownership over it, but whether or not it stands up in court is a different matter all together. If you see the “R” with the circle around it then that means the logo has been registered with, and approved by, the USPTO.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Oliver Peters] “I agree with everything you posted, except that the using Metal currently doesn’t work at all right now. It was broken with the latest OS and/or CC update. I have confirmed with Adobe that this is a driver issue, which is currently being worked on between Apple and Adobe.”

Thanks for the clarification, Oliver. I was going off of Adobe’s list from the Nov release and wasn’t aware of a recent issue.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Guille Ibanez] “If these very obvious bugs live within the software for several versions and all you see is new social panels then I do mind it. That’s my main critique
“

Understandable, though it’s a bit of a hyperbolic statement. No piece of software will be bug free and, Adobe, like all software companies with more than one or two employees, works on multiple new features and bug fixes concurrently. For example, besides the new social panel (which is still in an invite only beta) the 2017 update had improved captioning/subtitling, team projects (also still beta AFAIK), improved support for Apple’s Metal, new audio filters, better integration between PPro and AE, improvements to the Lumetri tool, etc.,. A few days ago they also dropped an update with a lot of bug fixes.

I haven’t upgraded to 2017 yet (and I’m on Mac, not Windows) so I can’t say if the problems you experienced still exist or not.

I’ve been using PPro as my primary NLE since 2013/2014 (a mix of Avid and FCP before that) and in my experience it hasn’t been buggy. Are there bugs? Of course, but I obviously haven’t hit the point where I’ve gone, “That’s it, I hate this program. I’m out.” I guess I’ve been lucky in that the really annoying bugs I’ve come across have always been fixed within an update or two.

[Scott Witthaus] “However, for Premiere users (albeit it very infrequently in my case) having a new social panel with two-way data flow show up while old bugs still exist and new bugs show up is very frustrating, to the point of the OP leaving the software to move to another platform.
“

So out of all the new features in CC 2017 it was definitely the work on the social media panel that meant not enough bugs could be addressed? ????

Everyone complains when they feel like their specific needs aren’t being met but off-the-shelf solutions are always going to have things that one person finds amazing and the next person in line finds useless (and of course that person will always comment about all the time ‘wasted’ on a feature just because it’s not relevant to their specific workflow). Why not say Adobe should’ve spent less time on improving support for Apple’s Metal (which obviously only benefits Mac users) instead of focusing on bugs that appear in both the Mac and PC versions? Or less time working on the Team Projects since (I assume) most people don’t work in the collaborate, team-based environment that Team Projects is designed for?

[Scott Witthaus] “Here’s a question to debate: If Premiere was a standalone product in the market (not attached to Adobe and the other products at all), where do you feel it would rank in the NLE world?”

Everyone’s workflow is different but at least in my neck of the woods I don’t think it would change a thing. If PPro wasn’t a capable NLE to begin with then I don’t think the integration would matter (outside of maybe some very specific workflows where you don’t need a capable NLE).

To continue the thought process, how would you rank FCP X w/o Motion or Compressor? How about X, MC, PPro and Resolve as completely stand alone, isolated applications (no plugins, no linking with other piece of software, etc.)?

[Andrew Kimery]

[Scott Witthaus] “No thank you. Focus on a new title tool please. Or the tilde bug.”

So… don’t use it? I’m sure the PPro team is big enough that multiple things can be worked on at one time. ???? I think I’ve used the existing publish to Vimeo/YT/FB feature exactly once in the last 3-ish years I’ve been using PPro, but just because it’s a wasted feature on me doesn’t mean it’s a wasted feature in general.

Many times in this forum people have lamented the devs focusing on the relatively small, but high profile, TV/film part of the industry and this new Publishing Tool obviously caters to a much broader (and growing) audience but the complaints keep coming. 😉

[Andrew Kimery]

[Scott Witthaus] ” If I were a die-hard CC fan, I would be concerned that Adobe is losing it’s focus.”

The CS Master Collections weren’t exactly tiny. ????

I didn’t count, but at first blush it looks like most of that software has been in Adobe’s arsenal for around a decade (and longer for things like PS, AE, Premiere, Ai, Acrobat, etc.,), and other than the than Gaming SDK and PhoneGap Build (which I know nothing about) everything seems pretty related to a facet of the creative industry that Adobe’s traditionally been a part of (photography, post production, web design, etc.,).

Craig made a very good point of software maturing and revenue leveling off so what options do a software companies have at that point besides continuing to add things to their existing software and/or releasing new software?

While the Social Media Publishing feature isn’t anything I would use, for people that publish a lot to social media this could be a boon for them. Seems like the next natural step to the share to YT/Vimeo functionality that X launched with. As we’ve talked about a lot in this forum, there is an ever growing number of people that need to edit video on a regular basis as part of their job, but not necessarily on an every day (or even every week) basis and this type of feature is most likely aimed at that market. Though over the past few years I’ve seen a growing number of job ads in LA that hiring editors to cut videos destined for social media.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Guille Ibanez] “Thanks for sharing the article guys. We’re the original creators of the post at Viva La Zoom. “

It was interesting getting a glimpse at your situation as so many people in my neck of the woods are looking at leaving Macs for PCs.

One thing that jumped out at me though (and this is obviously water under the bridge now) is your #4 Pro for X “Keyword folders much better than Adobe bins for organizing” you mention how other NLEs should implement their own version of this, but Adobe already did. In 2013 or 2014 Adobe added the Search Bins feature to Premiere which allows you to create a bin based on a variety of criteria (from keywords to codec to frame rate) and it will auto-populate with all the media that meets the criteria you entered. It’s not as slick as FCP X’s implementation, but it’s still very useful. I’ve run into a lot of long time Premiere users that don’t know about this feature and it’s unfortunate that Adobe didn’t do a better job at marketing it.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “Good god, man – all I did was post a link to a high end facility editors direct experience with the tool this entire forum is supposedly about!
“

This side discussion isn’t about your original post and you know it. As previously stated, it’s about the hypocrisy of complaining that other people do XYZ while also choosing to do XYZ.

[Bill Davis] “It wasn’t me leading the brigade of – “yeah, but look at all the other stuff that still sucks about X.”

But you willfully participate and perpetuate those types of exchanges because, and I quote, “When you have a sword swung AT you enough – it’s traditional to learn to parry and swing one right back.”

Revisiting my previous example, when Walter mentioned how Premiere has integration with stock photo libraries to help automate that process you replied with a comment about Adobe seemingly taking an unduly high percentage of each stock footage sale. It’s a completely out of left field dig at Adobe. It would be you saying “Hey, aren’t these new Lanes in X great?” and me replying, “I guess so… but don’t you think it’s unfair that Apple pays the workers that assemble iPhones in China so little?”

[Bill Davis] “If it’s what the Cow wants – a Final Cut Pro X forum where every single positive comment about it must be aggressively challenged by default – well,good luck with that.”

I think this is where Tim pops in and mentions all the traffic this place gets…

I really can’t think of any place I’ve been where the relative merits of so many NLEs are broken down on a regular basis than here. There are plenty of forums, Facebook groups, mailing lists, etc., which all cater to their respective user/fan bases, but for critical thinking across the board I’m not aware of any other place like this forum.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “…is pretty much YOU swinging your own invented “purposefully” word-sword directly at ME – after jumping to an incorrect assumption.”

Once you finally clarified that you were quoting an older, private communication with Mads and not the public posting by Mads that all of us were referencing I thanked you for the clarification because it’s not my intent put words in peoples’ mouths or misattribute things.

How was anyone but YOU to know that Mads said something to you in private and then said the EXACT same thing in public with the additional comment of “Now we are actually ABLE to work in the timeline. Now the snappiness of FCPX also applies to us.”? Everyone thought you were cherry picking Mads quote from FCP.co. It’s not like it’s beyond you to paint FCP X in an overly rosy light.

Again, you can act any way you please, but don’t complain about the actions of others when you do the same thing yourself (and don’t complain even more when your hypocrisy gets pointed out). Just own your actions and go with it.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “When you have a sword swung AT you enough – it’s traditional to learn to parry and swing one right back.

If somebody “jumps the topic” of a thread away from a noted positive development in one software camp – in order merely to point out a “non-related balancing deficiency” in response – explain please why it suddenly becomes inappropriate for me to do the exact same thing?”

The figurative sword isn’t being swung at YOU, it’s being swung at FCP X. And unlike an actual sword being swung at someone in real life, figurative swords on the Internet don’t require a reaction. On the Interent not engaging in behavior you don’t like is as easy as choosing to not engage in behavior that you don’t like. Lead by example. Engage in the conduct you would LIKE to see in the forum instead of the conduct you DISLIKE seeing in the forum. Follow the Golden Rule.

I never said it was inappropriate for you to do the exact thing. I was pointing out that its hypocritical for you to complain about people doing XYZ when you yourself do XYZ. If you want to swing swords then by all means swing swords. Just don’t complain about the sword fights while you perpetuate them.

Eye for an eye and we all go blind and all that…

If you post something cool about X and someone craps on X for something completely unrelated then just politely remind the person that this thread is about cool and if they want to talk about crap then they can start their own thread talking about crap. If the talk about crap continues then I’m sure you can ask Tim if he can spin crap off into its own thread since it has nothing to do with cool. I know we are the kings of branching discussions in here, but I think it’s fine for the thread starter to ask for completely unrelated discussions to get spun off into their own threads.

I try not to derail threads like that, though I’m sure I have in the past because I’m not perfect, but I’ll be more mindful of it going forward. It is lame to post something cool, and then have someone else drop in something completely unrelated and negative just because they want to be negative. If we make a better effort to curb such behavior (such has having those comments spun off into their own threads) then it will probably wither and die because we are denying the thread bomber their ability to thread bomb.

Just my 2 cents.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “So Premiere has been in the “movie business” since the Bandito Bros gig in 2005.

FCP X for just 5 years.

Begging the question why with a decade head start – Apple did it so much faster with X?

(Chuckling while shuffling off with my head down to avoid the lobbed rocks!)”

Not quite sure I follow Bill. If we were to start the clock with Dust to Glory then that’s two years after PPro launched and Focus came out fours years after X launched. If we include FCP Legend in this talk then why is X, now 5.5yrs into its life cycle, so far behind in this metric compared to Legend at a similar point in its life?

If we start the clock on PPro with Gone Girl and you ask why did it take PPro so long, I think I brought up part of that already in my previous post. Was it because PPro wasn’t technically capable of handling a project like a Hollywood feature film? Was it because people just thought it was crap because they heard it was crap? Was it both?

I used one of the last versions of Premiere (not Pro) and compared to FCP it was crap. If you owned a Mac there was really no reason to choose Premiere over FCP (and the creative community is very Mac centric, as you know). This is why when Adobe launched PPro in ’03 it was Windows only. There wasn’t a big enough Mac market to make the endeavor worthwhile. It wasn’t until 2007 that the Mac version came back (and it was for Intel Macs only). I’m sure not having to make a separate PPC version just for Apple drastically lowered the cost to make it cross platform. Even then though, FCP Legend was just getting stronger and stronger and Avid was still Avid, so again, no reason at all to look at PPro.

One of the best things to happen to Premiere Pro was for Apple to yank FCP 7 from store shelves. That forced FCP users to look at other NLEs (many for the first time in a long time, if ever) and low and behold Premiere wasn’t really the hulking pile of crap FCP users thought it was.