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Some thoughts on the FCPX Forum
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Sadly I’m not nearly as good looking as the pictures at the top of these forums.
bigpine
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[TImothy Auld] “Sadly I’m not nearly as good looking as the pictures at the top of these forums”
It’s why I put my dog up there, much better looking than moi.
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[Chris Harlan] “I’ve been singled out as a problem an have basically been told to move on.”
Chris,
You haven’t been singled out; as a dissenting voice you’ve just been added to the list of other dissenters who are being made to feel unwelcome on this forum by a very small, self-appointed group of control freaks, who simply can’t stand the idea that many of us just don’t agree with them.
The very loudest among them, specifically Bill Davis and Steve Conner, have shown themselves to be hypocrites of the highest order, who, when they can’t win the debate, are compelled to suggest that alternative points of view must head for the nearest exit.
Craig Seeman has attempted to stick to the debate (for the most part), hence you’ve stood up for him, and rightly so, but in defending those who try to chase dissenting voice away, I think Craig risks damaging his own credibility.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Craig Seeman] “But the newbie or newly returning opinion is important. One doesn’t know statistically how representative Steve is but if many share that sentiment, that does not reflect well on the COW. It may mean people, whose first experience of the COW is to come here looking to read about FCPX, may simply leave without bothering to explore the rest. Even more experienced folks may decide to leave for non COW forums.
It’s not at all about “disagreement” which is common everywhere. It’a about how some are handling it.”
Craig,
The fact that Steve is regarded as a newbie once again is the least important part of my message. Your response above does not address the fact that Steve Conner is asking dissenters to head for the exits. That’s the big difference between guys like Steve and Bill Davis and yourself, and by refusing to acknowledge that, I think you risk diluting your own message.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “The people at the top of some cow forums aren’t forum leaders, rather they are “top posters”.”
I’m thinking it’s that with some algorithm. I think the goal is to highlight the most helpful in a way that can change over time.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Supposedly I was a leader in the fcp7 forum, but my head is no longer up at the top as most of my posting lately has been over here trying to figure this out and discuss.”
But you seem to have been decapitated here as well yet you seem to be a fairly frequent poster. It’s why I speculate about an algorithm as well. There’s also the ability to remove one’s head at will . . . sounds a bit macabre.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Also, I think my head might have been pulled as my wonderful dog was not allowed to be my avatar. Silliness. Do you guys care what one another looks like?”
I’m sympathetic as my cat face was replaced. Heck if COW can put my puss up their why can’t it be my puss. How’s that for double entendre? I thought it was very appropriate since I think a few people here see that I can get my dander up and be a bit hissy. That cat certainly entertains both me and my clients when they come by to work with me so I thought he was an appropriate projection. Recently I’ve even had a client or two come by and when they see him for the first time they’ve exclaimed “your famous.” It actually tells me a lot about image marketing.
It’s with some irony that on your forum posts, you’re now a cow. I vote for the return of your pooch…along with my puss.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s why I put my dog up there, much better looking than moi.”
And I learn so much from my cat that he’s the real “leader” in the house. He works with me constantly. If the zoomed out a bit on the headshot you’d see my cat sitting directly behind me on the top of the chair. The COW cropped him out. I’d never do that in a company photo to an integral member of my staff.
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Ironically, I spent so much time editing my reply, to keep it as focused as I can manage, the name of the forum was suddenly changed. Ron moves fast. And controversy certainly never hurt traffic – heh. I’m sure Ron knows that “as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens the wits of another.” This is probably one of the most educational forums on the cow right now.
And since it is now a stated goal to welcome debate (scary to think that we may reach a time when debate must first be welcomed before diverse opinions can be tolerated), I’ll expand on what I wanted to respond to.
You said new users might be put off by what was happening here. I would disagree. Here’s how.
The young and inexperienced are being offered a great service in this forum – they are being given the opportunity to hear opinions from many sides on what makes for a good edit tool and what doesn’t.
Instead of walking into a situation completely blind, they are getting point and counter-point.
If they don’t want to think, they don’t have to read at all.
But if they have big dreams and limited resources, they’re going to weigh everything that’s been said, and have an even deeper appreciation for the philosophical underpinnings that lie at the base of every application.
Like a boxing match, we essentially have two contenders.
In one corner the “old” idea that an edit tool should be a canvas upon which you can throw all your resources in a visual representation that depicts their relationships to a static timeline – and a humble willingness to share all its work – while maintaining sync – with many many other programs that are designed specifically for finishing – audio, color/grading, f/x work.
It should also offer ways of connecting to industry-standard hardware to maintain quality control.
While some might say this is a system that is tied to a dying industry (broadcast), I would remind them that a pursuit of quality is a product of competition.
Millions of drones post on Youtube, but only a relative few harness enough viewers to actually make a living.One of my favorites is freddiew. He is a young star destined for greatness, and he definitely has to operate in this first corner – and probably has never produced broadcast work in his life. His standards require having access to many tools and a few like-minded friends, and FCP X (the upgrade to FCP 7) would cut him off at the knees.
He did a piece on “Epic VFX” – bringing video editing to the streets!
Watch the counter at the bottom 🙂 I’m still laughing.In the other corner, we have what Apple said would be the upgrade: FCP X
It tries to do everything within the confines of a single program.In spite of it’s space-age underpinnings, it’s very philosophy forces radical departures from previously accepted workflows.
Not once have I heard anyone discover a method of color-correcting that is superior to what was offered through Color or is available through Resolve.
I haven’t heard anyone talk about hooking up control surfaces to it so they can mix 16 channels of audio with their favorite Waves compressor/limiters and voice-enhancing plugins.
No one has demonstrated the ease with which you can export plates for rotoscoping, while maintaining sync with the original material.Instead we hear that this the new wave of editing. But according to who? Randy?
What characteristics define the new wave of editors? The film-uneducated?
Who is the new audience? Corporate cubiclists forced to watch another boring “movie” on the differnece between a crush and sexual harassment?Youtube, unfettered, will be the definition of who survives and who’s ignored. Once the excitement of seeing 1,000 talking cats dies down, competition will still drive quality, and quality is something most easily achieved when work can be shared, and a pipeline isn’t boiled down to one application.
With FCP X you can’t even create a new ecosystem. It’s the roach-motel of edit systems – ie it’s the only edit system being pitched as “professional” that forces you to spend $500 on third-party software so you can play with others.
Of course, no one has said that FCP X is unusable. But it’s revealing when I see a thread labeled “Real world job on FCP X” and it turns out to be a behind the scenes piece of a photographer taking snapshots of cakes for the wife.
Man, you gotta love the “real world.”So, as a newbie, you have to decide. Are you the type of person who just wants to learn one application and hope it’s going to grow exactly as you need it to? Knowing that any muscle-memory you devleop will be completely wasted if you try and transfer your skills to another package?
ie. Do you feel lucky?
Or do you like to keep your options open, and have the ability to add other software programs to compliment your system as your own needs and resources grow?
Ask yourself, how is Apple’s knowledge of production – at any level – and insistence on parking their production future in FCP X’s corner superior to Avid or Adobe or Autodesk’s approach – who are firmly planted in the first corner?
These are good questions. Aren’t they? And we don’t ask them to be abusive. We ask them to learn. And if you find yourself struggling, you might want to consider the unimaginable. That your loyalty to FCP X may have more to do with loyalty to Apple than to your profession – if editing is your profession.
Everything I’ve just said is a distillation of the discussions going on in this forum, and would NEVER have been made had the “haters” been banned from contributing here.
Maybe “hater” is just the new “thinker.”
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[Craig Seeman] “These are the posts that bring down the forum and the COW and such posts are too frequent and interfere with the more intelligent debate.”
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Bringing the COW down, LOL! What hyperbole! I think it would take more than a few snarky posts to do that. Here’s some ELO to take the edge off.
[Craig Seeman] “Debate and rant are not synonyms. While each of us may have different lines where one crosses in to the other, it seems to me that line has been crossed often.”
You must lead a pretty sheltered life if you think what is written on this forum regularly crosses some kinda’ line. Have you ever worked on a live multi-cam remote? I have some typical intercom audio from gigs that in comparison, make this forum look like a trip to a monastery.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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I don’t want to speak for him but if he’s frustrated or otherwise put off and his voice might represent some who may be silent, we should listen. I don’t have a magic bullet to improve things (I hear there’s compatibility issues) but I do think we should acknowledge that some stuff is off-putting on all sides.
How can we keep debate interesting and provocative so that newer folks read with interest?
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Jeremy,
Don’t freak out… You haven’t been pulled or your dog picture discriminated against. I have it from the highest sources that you’re still a valued Cow leader in spite of your apparent loss of reason lately.
The fact is, the Cow infrastructure is undergoing extensive rehab, and the entire forum leader thing has unfortunately become ambiguous and very confusing in the interim. So, freak not, your volunteer efforts on the Cow are still remembered. And, one day this war is gonna end.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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