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Some thoughts on the FCPX Forum
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The issue is not the debate. Sometimes there’s very good solid analysis on both sides and strengths and weaknesses. There’s intelligent discussion on Apple’s and the post industry’s direction There’s discussion on what’s needed for various workflows.
Then IMHO there’s those who don’t articulate much more than “crap” or claim it “doesn’t” do something when maybe they don’t know how FCPX works vs cases where it actually can’t do something. These are the posts that bring down the forum and the COW and such posts are too frequent and interfere with the more intelligent debate.
Debate and rant are not synonyms. While each of us may have different lines where one crosses in to the other, it seems to me that line has been crossed often.
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forum [ˈfɔːrəm]
n pl -rums, -ra [-rə]
1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
3. a public meeting place for open discussion
4. a court; tribunal
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in South Africa) a pressure group of leaders or representatives, esp Black leaders or representatives
6. (Historical Terms) (in ancient Italy) an open space, usually rectangular in shape, serving as a city’s marketplace and centre of public business
[from Latin: public place; related to Latin foris outside]I see nothing in the definition of the word forum that says the persons participating in it need to be a bunch of Pollyanna’s, or pretend the emperor is wearing his clothes. To put it another way, love of the product is not a prerequisite for participation.
I think the dissenters are doing a great public service by stopping the uninformed from wasting 300 dollars that they could use to by a real editing application. I love the part where you are talking about how all the forum leaders don’t use the software, and are discouraging others from using it, and how that is a unique situation. Maybe if you would take off the rose colored glasses, and look at that closer, it would become clear as to why that is.
And speaking of loving the program, well, love it all you want. Who is stopping you?
Although I wonder how much you actually know about it, since you seem to spend all of your time monitoring this forum, so you can jump on every post that isn’t a slobbering love affair with your beloved movie hero app. Your post is a perfect example of the proverbial “pot calling the kettle black”. Not only do you, and the glee club literally jump on every post you disagree with, but then you wrote this:
“I also understand that discussion here on the COW should never be stifled, but some of the posts are not discussion they are simply people forcing their opinions on posters who never asked for it.”
Did your OP contain any Final Cut discussion, or was it just you forcing your opinion on us? Or was it an attempt to stifle the opposition, by noting right off the top that the post contained “Some thought(sic) from an e-mail I have recently sent to Ronald Lindeboom“. Your OP wreaks of hypocrisy.
But you are not alone. There are a handful of ‘the usual suspects’ that we can count on for some ‘thumbs down’ anytime someone posts less than a five star review of movie hero, or to ‘thumb up’ your pontificating on how great movie hero is. I noticed it only took twenty minutes for someone from the glee club to post a thank you response to your OP. What are you guys emailing each other? You all act like self appointed, movie hero ‘mall cops’, that have taken it upon yourselves to try and keep these streets clear of any hooligans, who dare speak ill of the failed app. And your post sounds like a sad attempt to get you moved up from your self-appointed mall cop status, to something with a bit more cred. Who knows, maybe it will work. Maybe you can get Ron to give us all the ban-hammer and silence our criticism. So you and your little clique’ can all be the permanent forum leaders in your own little private Idaho.
The one thing I don’t understand is why don’t you spend all this effort getting up to speed on your new favorite toy. I mean really, if you love it so much, and it’s such a great, and deep app, and it’s getting you so much work, how do you find the time to police the streets?
BTW if the dissenters are so upsetting your delicate nature, and stopping you from discussing of movie hero’s merits, whatever they are, there is another sandbox for you to go play in:
https://forums.creativecow.net/fcpxtechnique
I haven’t been there, but I hear it’s hooligan free.
Don’t forget to email your posse and have them thumb down this post.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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[Craig Seeman] “Then IMHO there’s those who don’t articulate much more than “crap” or claim it “doesn’t” do something when maybe they don’t know how FCPX works vs cases where it actually can’t do something. These are the posts that bring down the forum and the COW and such posts are too frequent and interfere with the more intelligent debate.”
I guess it’s subjective. I have seen a few where somebody should just log off and mow the lawn or something but it’s the minority. I also see petty arguments on other forums so what can you say? I guess there are bitter TV people out there and some of them are very highly respected. That’s life.
In any case it’s way less than it was a few weeks ago so I don’t see reason for complaint. I assume there is some moderation here so if anybody goes overboard I guess they’ll deal with it. Internet forums are never what one person wishes they were.
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“I know of no other COW forum where so many faces on top either don’t use, don’t like, aren’t interested in helping users of the software except to the extent they can discourage people.”
I wonder why that is?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
[Steve Connor] “I also find it strange that many of the forum leaders don’t use the software and do not plan to. I find this part to be the saddest as many of these people have been incredibly helpful to myself and thousands of others on the FCP forum, I understand their bitterness but I don’t understand why, two months later they still feel the need to vent on the forum.”
Steve,
As a longtime member of the Cow you should be well aware that no one appreciates being told how to think, what to think, and when to think it, especially by someone they don’t even know.
Like it or not, you’re actually a total newbie here all over again. No one, save me and a few other old timers even knows you, because you’ve been missing in action in recent times. All the others here do know is that you suddenly appeared, suddenly started trying to control the conversation, suddenly started bitching about others who don’t agree with you, and now you’re suddenly trying to make those who disagree with your point of view feel unwelcome on this forum.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Scott Sheriff] “Your post is a perfect example of the proverbial “pot calling the kettle black”. Not only do you, and the glee club literally jump on every post you disagree with, but then you wrote this:
“I also understand that discussion here on the COW should never be stifled, but some of the posts are not discussion they are simply people forcing their opinions on posters who never asked for it.”
Did your OP contain any Final Cut discussion, or was it just you forcing your opinion on us? Or was it an attempt to stifle the opposition, by noting right off the top that the post contained “Some thought(sic) from an e-mail I have recently sent to Ronald Lindeboom”. Your OP wreaks of hypocrisy.”Gotta say that I agree. I’ve been in the middle of discussions where I’ve been diagnosed as a hater because I’m talking about functions I don’t like. I’ve been singled out as a problem an have basically been told to move on.
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[Scott Sheriff] “I think the dissenters are doing a great public service by stopping the uninformed from wasting 300 dollars that they could use to by a real editing application.”
Pointing out flaws or weaknesses are one thing. That’s not what many people are doing. One simply has to read the adjectives some post have with no substantive analysis. Not all posts are like that but there are many.
[Scott Sheriff] “And speaking of loving the program, well, love it all you want. Who is stopping you? “
It has to do with intelligent discourse vs posts that are nothing more than derogatory.
Dictionary definitions have little to do with COW as a business nor as a place where can discuss things.
We make judgements just as I would judge who to work with in production and post production. There’s a difference between discourse and emotional dumping. Just as I would not hire or work with someone who screamed at their crew or employees, there are things that people have posted here that I’d consider, not such a good public record of their attitude. -
But the newbie or newly returning opinion is important. One doesn’t know statistically how representative Steve is but if many share that sentiment, that does not reflect well on the COW. It may mean people, whose first experience of the COW is to come here looking to read about FCPX, may simply leave without bothering to explore the rest. Even more experienced folks may decide to leave for non COW forums.
It’s not at all about “disagreement” which is common everywhere. It’a about how some are handling it.
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The people at the top of some cow forums aren’t forum leaders, rather they are “top posters”.
But some of them are leaders left over from the old style that never really post as much as other people. It’s really unclear as to what is going on at the top of the forums, and also in world politics.
Supposedly I was a leader in the fcp7 forum, but my head is no longer up at the top as most of my posting lately has been over here trying to figure this out and discuss. Whatever, it doesn’t bother me I’m just a volunteer, the point is that just because someone’s head is at the top doesn’t make them a traditional “forum leader” so you can’t judge who is or isn’t using the software from their picture, you can only judge the amount of posting they’ve been doing.
Also, I think my head might have been pulled as my wonderful dog was not allowed to be my avatar. Silliness. Do you guys care what one another looks like?
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If Apple had included support for legacy projects, XML, multicam, and a way to turn off the magnetic timeline this forum might not even exist. The land of if is a magical kingdom where all things are possible. I still maintain that most of what I see on this forum is healthy, productive – if sometimes heated -discussion. There are abuses by a few on both sides of the issue. I think they are far from the majority.
bigpine
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