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On being rude to Randy Ubillos
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[Mike Stroven] “In true Apple form, a bunch of clueless product marketing people try and dumb things down to the point that any 2nd grader can use them. They don’t understand the professional market, and they never have. They don’t understand the enterprise market either, surprise… They are like Volkswagon without the R&D of Porche and Audi.”
Sony does this. Sony has a professional division that make $ 50,000 HD tape decks and HD cameras, plus other hard core pro equipment. It is a division within the company.
The R&D from the high end trickles down and is used in prosumer and consumer products – it is great business strategy, and one Apple should employ.
Apple should work with the Pros, make some cutting edge stuff and use the R&D to make the consumer end cutting edge.
I worry that Steve J. is sick and some of the worst elements (i.e. Randy) of the company are taking it over for some short term profit.
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[John Chay] “I’m having a hard time grasping what you are saying. I think comparing editing to a spread sheet is weird. “
. . . and that may be the problem people are having grasping why FCPX is the way it is. It is a relational database. No other NLE is based on that.
[John Chay] “I’m not sure how working in a “relational database” creates a better work environment when in the end all I’m trying to do is create a story that is compelling and makes sense.”
… and I remember linear editors not being able to grasp why one would want to digitize tapes when one could simply put up the 1″ reel or the betacam tapes and start editing . . . linearly.
Superficially the story may be linear but the parts are all relational especially when you get into compositing or even tying b-roll, cutaways, fx, titles, layers of sound. You now have both vertical and horizontal relationships. Sometimes relationships are one to one and/or linear and sometimes not.
Each Connected clip is a relationship to a clip below it. Each Secondary Storyline are clips related to each other but with a single connection to the Primary or Secondary Storylline below it. The metadata tagging and collections are each designed to make doing a Query in the database possible. Such query is a bit more complex than a simple “find” even though superficially it can be that simple. The query has the potential to be complex.
In a spreadsheet the rows are independent except to the extent one is doing a formula for specific cells. Use a spreadsheet and use a relational database and it becomes apparent why relational databases are far more powerful.
FCPX itself has barely tapped that potential because what we’re seeing is just the foundation. Eventually this will get hooked into a server based system but Apple seems aways away from that.
Even a database can end in a simple report superficially but the ability to generate a wide variety of reports limited only by your ability to build relationships and queries, etc.
If you’ve read some of the people who are metadata geeks and those looking at AV Foundation, they have used terminology that alludes to the database nature of FCPX. Philip Hodgetts is one but there are others.
Sorry I can’t explain any better but in exploring FCPX from both the media handling and the Storyline handling, the relational database becomes more clear to me. What they have is very skeletal at the moment but I think the designers know what they’re doing and where it can go. Whether they can get it there in a way that has both an easy to use front end without crippling the power, is the challenge and there’s no guarantee of success. I do think they’re taking a daring step though and whether people like it or not, at least appreciate it.
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[J Hussar] “But I want the option to turn it off.”
How would that work? I don’t think it’s impossible, just not implemented. As long as there’s metadata there should be alternate ways of arranging it.
My own thought is that one should have the option to have it default to Secondary Storylines (track) if one wants to work primarily in a track modality.
Trying to use a Storyline modality is a bit clunky at the moment but it is there and it may only take a few GUI changes to allow for that without making a major overhaul.
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[Aindreas Gallagher] ” so no amount of clawing at them verbally is going to get them to turn around, however much you might really really wish it could. So then you stop clawing.”
I think it’s too early to make that judgement. They clawed back an inch so far.
Can you recall this level of backlash? Do you honestly think, this will be the end?
If they put FCS3 back on the shelves instead of taking their 30 silver, then we should expect some moves to gain back what they are inevitably losing at this point in time…if they don’t…. then that to me will ring as the last word on this…
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Craig, do you know but what you’re saying there really does sound crazily interesting, and insofar as I get it from yours and chris kenny’s comments, I do dimly understand that Apple have been extremely rigourous with the new underpinnings of this software – it feels like a bit of mad technical moonshot, ZFS for all and damn the old architecture thing, and really its hard not to have sneaking admiration for that on a basic intellectual cleanliness level.
there is no way I’m going to regurgitate my other criticisms – but you’ve got me more than curious enough to read properly, and quite a bit more, about the technical architecture underpinning the software.http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
No to be fair I’ve never seen a net/fire/s**tstorm the scale of this, (said the man busily pumping the bellows at the flames…)
And yes – I also thought they would put FCS back on the shelves for a bit – nearly everyone thought they were going to do that – I think even gruber said he thought they were going to do that. He actually advised them to call FCPX FCP express X sure. And that was coming from Gruber. You’d think self motivated interest to protect their position at the facilities would have had them throw it back on the shelves for a bit if only to get the words EOL out of everyone’s mouth.. but well sure, you know – its apple, they’re not for the turning.
Although – they *did* guarantee FCP7 in Lion. that’s more than they had done previously I think? If that’s a new commitment, its not an insignificant engineering commitment.
I personally think we’ve had our last and only word from the mountain – It’ll be what it’ll be like. their software strategy is locked – we’re no shifting it.http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
Apple doesn’t like a PR mess, and making professional media people mad is a huge error (i.e. Conan O’Brien video).
No they are in full alert mode – they thought they’d slip it by and they failed. They’ll try and make peace, just for the sake of PR.
Not complaining would have been the big mistake. The legal idea is here:
Silence is acquiescence (aka. silent acquiescence and acquiescence by silence) is a related doctrine that can mean, and have the legal effect, that when confronted with a wrong or an act that can be considered a tortious act, where one’s silence may mean that one accepts or permits such acts without protest or claim thereby loses rights to a claim of any loss or damage.
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[Craig Seeman] “.. and I remember linear editors not being able to grasp why one would want to digitize tapes when one could simply put up the 1” reel or the betacam tapes and start editing . . . linearly.
“Wait a minute, you and I have different memories of the transition from linear to non-linear. i learned film editing on moviolas and flatbeds, then linear video tape editing on ECS offline and CMx online systems. I remember being a little perplexed by the first (clunky) non-linear system, but also immediately recognized and appreciated their worth. it was easy to ‘grasp’ just by looking at cut&paste methods in word processing for instance and understand how this innovation was going to change my world for the better. Any linear editor having to make a last minute change in a long form program know exactly why I welcomed the change. Most editors I know took to it quickly. So this revolt is hardly of same sort.
But then, perhaps I am slow to ‘grasp’ this, trying to convince me that FCPx model is better because it is based on a relational database method just doesn’t have the same ‘aha’ experience for me.
Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/ -
I remember my first lesson on Avid and watching the instructor create a dissolve with a click of a button. Right then and there I knew linear editing was obsolete.
No “aha” moment with Final Cut X for me either.
Editor/Videographer
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “it feels like a bit of mad technical moonshot”
In other places I’ve likened to creating the language Esperanto. Apple may be the one company that can pull off this new language but it’s certainly no guarantee of success. Right now they’re just creating the dictionary and the grammar rules. They have not created the novel, speech, epic as of yet.
Certainly people can move to other things and come back to it when it’s a full fledged language. Others will start their lessons now while the grammar rules are still under construction and the dictionary is still be added to with new words.
Apple’s very difficult challenge is to bring the language into common use. Esperanto failed. Apple has better marketing power though . . . or at least had in the past.
Some have said Apple is acting as they have always had. Actually I think they’re acting different, that doesn’t necessarily mean better though.
In the last couple of years we’ve seen some marketing changes. Steve Jobs answering emails, cryptic as his responses are, knowing that they would viral. Randy Ubillos responding to one person privately through Facebook. A sneak peak of FCPX, with all the flaws in execution, is also new. It’s almost as if Apple is undergoing some changes in marketing by using “communities” to spread messages and some things are working and others not so well.
That they used to manage very long transitions such as OS9 to OSX or PPC to Intel and did not do that this time is very different as well.
It’s almost as if Apple is in transition on many levels. Of course this has people nervous and, as noted above, no guarantee of success. The mighty have fallen before. Apple is the one company that can pull this off. That’s doesn’t mean they will . . . but if they do it will be a paradigm shift . . . and if not . . .
The App Store itself can be a great way to distribute and there are potential problems there as well. I just went through six days of customer service hell because the App Store has no live support and despite my purchase and download, FCPX showed as not installed therefore I’d get no updates and couldn’t install on my MBP without being requesting to pay for it again. I did push and got Live support and probably tore the heads of a couple of lower level managers in both tech support and iTunes support as a result. It now shows as installed though . . . six days later. Nothing a professional can afford to accept as support.
I am no fanboy and my slings and arrows are sharp. I do have a grasp of what they’re doing technologically. I like it. I hope they get the rest of the house in order though if this ever to be an Esperanto in wide use.
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