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Old dogs new tricks
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[Bill Davis] “Why? Because it won’t be that long before we’ll all be competing for editing projects – on line – globally?”
Right, and I’m looking forward to remote editing really maturing because it means I won’t have to be in LA in order to keep working w/my LA network (and it will make it easier for me to work with people not in LA). I’ve been waiting for a s long distance editing to improve for years which is one reason why I’m so interested in the development of Avid Everywhere and Adobe Anywhere.
What does that have to do with the adoption rate of X though? This is the second thread recently (the Honda thread being the first) where you’ve expressed concern because you think not enough people in the U.S. are using X compared to other parts of the world. Why? What’s the prize for winning the FCP X adoption race? Do you think X is such a vastly superior NLE across the board that anyone not using X is inherently at a significant disadvantage regardless of individual skill, experience and/or the workflow requirements of the job at hand?
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[Bill Davis] “I think there was so much new to learn about X editing concventions that it’s taken a while for editors to dive too deeply into it.
That said, some editors like the guy in Brazil who cut this have likely taken the time to dig deep.”
This is true as you are right to keep reminding us and it’s clear that you have taken the trouble to dive deeper than most.
I’m guessing that you also took the time to dive deeply into Media Composer and Premiere before deciding that FCP X was the right choice not just for you but also for the editing world at large – and more importantly that it’s the only real weapon left in the fight to arrest the decline of the US in the global production marketplace.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com -
[Bill Davis] “The most recent company to take a stab at improving the actual PROCESS of video editing was Apple with X.”
This does seem to imply that Apple’s feeble-minded competitors have made no attempts to improve the editing process in the interim, does it not?
I wonder whether that contention is fully sustainable.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com -
[Oliver Peters] “There are very few true innovations in FCP X that haven’t first been done elsewhere.”
Where did I ever infer anything even close to that, Oliver? (I’m seeing a pattern here. Spoiler: I didn’t.) Aside from the fact that FCP X most definitely was years ahead in many workflow ways, even in it’s first incarnation, now that you mention it. But I guess everyone else already had things such as background import, transcoding, rendering and things such as auditions etc. etc.?
“Hover Scrub”, said background rendering/import/transcoding, additional metadata windows/support and a long list of other things were OF COURSE on the top of everyone’s list long before X was even considered. 😀
I never spoke of FCP X specifically. I was referring to your claim and quoting the three adjectives that came from you, remember? But if the aforementioned points actually still somehow render Avid equally “innovative, superior or advanced” as the rest in your book, then at least I know what I’m up against. Must be an interpretation or perspective thing? 🙂
[Oliver Peters] “creating your own effects with Motion (first in FCP “legacy”). “
How and when could you make effects for FCP 7 with Motion in any way even close to the way you can now, first or ever? Another spoiler: you couldn’t.
[Oliver Peters] “Really? I see it differently, but I’m speaking way more generally about tone.”
Ah. So your personal, subjective (completely unbiased) interpretation or “feeling”. Right. Now I understand how I “said” so many things I didn’t. 😀
[Oliver Peters] “Again, our perspectives differ.”
Right. Why substantiate a claim when you can simply accuse others of being “misinterpretable”.
[Oliver Peters] “this market had been predominantly FCP-based – now shifting to Premiere Pro.”
A claim you can substantiate with actual numbers and not just anecdotal evidence, right? Or what is the vague “this market” referring to?
[Oliver Peters] “The bottom line is that they struggle with the same issues that experienced users do when shifting to something new.”
Thank you. My point exactly. The key being “experienced users”, just as I said and clearly differentiated between.
[Oliver Peters] “you are judging by people who already want a change because they aren’t happy with what they know or use now. You don’t know what the number is that isn’t buying your training.”
Erm… yes? :-))) In other words “anyone not wanting to learn an NLE and/or not getting any training, doesn’t get it and ‘has issues'”? Hmmm… well, in that case, yeah… you’re right and once again underscores my original point. Never mind that that applies to ANY software. Why and how the heck could I be referencing anyone NOT wanting to switch or NOT buying training of sorts? Would you rather I just make things up or go by what I interpret the… oh, wait… 😀
And how is that even the least bit relevant to the overall comprehensibility of a software—your original point—by any stretch of the imagination?? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Not to mention that that was meant purely anecdotal and not somehow global.
But we can certainly agree that someone unwilling or in no need to learn something will (surprise!) actually have “issues” doing so, yes.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Neil Goodman] “I gotta disagree.”
You certainly may. That’s what we’re here for. 🙂
[Neil Goodman] “As far as timeline editing goes, theres too much that needs to be done with the mouse and clicking and dragging.”
I can only assume that you don’t know your way around X well enough then. Sounds an awful lot like the “it doesn’t work the way I’m used to and or as I expect, therefore it doesn’t work at all” problem. Because I know of nearly nothing that can’t in fact be done with the keyboard if needed. For me there’s also a big distinction between “works differently” and “doesn’t work at all“. You should be sure you actually know of all the options and possibilities before you make such an assumption, as apparently you didn’t. I’d have posted Sam’s video at this point also had Bill not already done it.
[Neil Goodman] “Did you only feel like an “operator”? were you not artistic in FCP legend [sic]?”
Since working with X? Wow… do I EVER realize how much of my work was just plain operating, yes. Sure I was “artistic”, but the road from A to B was simply exponentially longer in 7 than in X, no doubt about it. Especially when it comes to larger projects. A difference of day and night for me.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Bill Davis] “I so forgot that if I remark in public that my wife looks great, that automatically implies that the other women around her look like crap.”
Yeah. I’m not too sure what the defensive, superfluous snark is all about either OR how it’s in any way supposed to add to the discussion in a constructive way. Ah well… guess it’s tradition. 😉
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Bill Davis] “So the actual slug line for X should be: The best features of many other editing software packages – all rolled into one!”
I guess so. 😀
But then some can’t seem to see any difference in IF something was implemented and HOW it was implemented. In which case, when the HOW is the actual relevant factor, the whole implication implodes from the get go anyway.
At least for me “certain similarities” doesn’t quite equate with “same and done before”. But then I guess that’s just another question of perception/interpretation? You know, like the iPhone wasn’t innovative, advanced etc. since there were clearly cell phones for years before it! 🙂
Never mind that everything is a remix anyway. It’s all about HOW.
– RK
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[tony west] “Brother, you just made the argument why corporations will see X as a way to drive down cost.
The day rate going down across the board is obviously a bad thing for editors.
Many decision makers in the corporate halls are too clueless about X to figure this out right now but in the not too distant future, they will.”Well put and spot on. Many know too well that in the end, like it or not, the accountants make more decisions far more often than they should, especially in larger companies. A scenario in which Avid of all NLEs is by far the most likely to lose given time imho. They are already. At least at the various media academies and universities that I teach or taught at, all had Avid classes at a ratio of about 5:1 (probably even worse) in favor of various other NLEs… if they even offered it at all.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Bill Davis] “Why is this even the question? We’re talking about the viability of a tool. …
Or is the new slam at X that it somehow “limits” the type of editing an operator can do? “Wow. A little touchy maybe? It’s a legitimate question. If it’s just off-lining the spot, then that could be done with any NLE. If it’s full compositing then there a real question of workflow that we could all learn from. Certainly the latter is something that generally wouldn’t be attempted on MC, PPro, FCP7 or other NLEs.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[tony west] “Let’s say removing background noise. Would that be easier in X or AVID for a student new to editing?”
I would not do it in either NLE. And what does that have to do with learning difficulty?
[tony west] “You are saying that corps have to pay more to employees with AVID”
Not corporations, but TV production companies and film production companies, since that specific to the LA market.
[tony west] “Brother, you just made the argument why corporations will see X as a way to drive down cost.”
Far too simplistic of a point-of-view. The same argument could be made in favor of Adobe CC on subscription, because the accounting works out better for the bean counters. Especially since you get the whole Adobe suite.
[tony west] “There are people who teach young folks for a living on here that say the opposite.”
As do I and have done for years. I stand by my experience. I’m teaching film students with very specific goals in mind. That’s a lot different than general software instruction on how to use an editing application. I can and have brought students up to speed with all manner of NLEs in the same amount of time.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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