New user needs advice on mixer/recorder

[Eric Toline]

For about $200 you can buy a used Shure FP 410 4 input auto mic mixer that will do the job you want perfectly. I use them all the time for spontaneous panel discussions. Takes away the problems of open mics and trying to keep up with who’s talking when. Check out ebay for the Shure FP410.

Eric

[Daniel James]

Sounds ideal, thanks Eric.

[Ty Ford]

Hello Daniel and welcome to the cow audio forum.

An automixer can be a real benefit, especially if you’re in a situation with a PA system. Four open mics can easily put you over the top and into feedback.

Here’s what I do. I have a Shure FP410 four channel auto mixer. The four SM58 (or whatever) come into it. It has two mono outputs. I’ll either send both to one camera or one to each of two cameras. Or send one to a camera and the other to the house for PA. The only EQ the FP410 has is low cut, so I can’t shape the voice very much.

Sometimes I’ll add another mixer after the automixer. I’ll bring the output of the automixer into one channel. From this second mixer, I’ll feed a camera, recorder or whatever from one output and the house PA on a separate output. This gives me control of the level to the house. If it starts to go into feedback, I can pull it back.

Here’s another method. Use a small mixer like a mackie 12 or 16. Use the EQ to improve the response for each panelist. Mix the mics in real time. As each person speaks, bump their mic up a bit and pull the others back a bit, maybe at 3/4 or 1/2 level in case they start talking.

From the Mackie, feed a mono mix to the recorder. Again, use a separate feed to the house so you can control the level.

Make sense? Any questions?

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS YOU may find yourself in a venue with overhead speakers over the table at which the panelists sit. This is a recipe for feedback. Some halls have controls and can turn off these speakers in different parts of the room. If this is a problem, you may be able to get them to turn the problem speakers down or off.

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[Daniel James]

That’s great information, Ty. Thank you.

I’m actually struggling to find a Shure FP410 here in the UK but will keep my eye out on eBay (unless I can get one shipped from the US).

I was considering your other option of using a Mackie or similar. Because I’m on the move I definitely want something compact and was considering this:

1202-VLZ3

Looking at some videos and the dimensions in the spec the Mackie still seems fairly large but I’ve heard decent reviews of the Soundcraft 124 which is quite a bit smaller:

Soundcraft 124

Although discontinued the 124 still seems widely available.

Would you say it’s suitable or better to get the larger Mackie and just accept the size/weight.

Many thanks again.

[Ty Ford]

Daniel,

Per the FP410 scarcity, try an Audio Technica MX-351
https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/mixers/6d6ef12d4b4bbf7c/index.html

The problem with those two mixers you looked at is that they have relatively small rotary pots that will be difficult to change quickly. I use a Sound devices 442 location mixer and have learned to wrap my fingers around its larger knurled rotary pots, but you can run four channels of linear faders with one hand.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Daniel James]

Thanks again, Ty. Looks like I can get an Audio Technica used for around £250 here in the UK which is in my price range.

With regard to the mixers, I’ll have to work towards owning a 442 so in the interim, other than the rotary pot issue which I can see would be a problem, would you say those were reasonable compact mixers?

[Ty Ford]

better this

https://www.mackie.com/products/profx8/

Regards,

Ty

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[Peter Groom]

Why SM58s?

Im not a fan personally. Ok theyre rugged and have been around a long time, but thats about it for me. I see them as a stage / performance mic, where the performer will press it on their tonsils.
I think it may be too far away from your peoples mouths, its big and unsightly (bad if theres a camera shoot too, need to be on table stands which will rattle table noise up into the mic, and the output levels arent too “hot” either.
Bad choice in my opinion (although Im sure others will disagree)

Id put Sony ecm77s on each person( if you want wired) or sennheiser g3 radios. Discreet, always in the ideal place, close pickup pattern, bright, camera freindly, good level output.

Just my opinion.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[David Eaks]

FWIW a while ago I bought a Mackie VFX 8 after years of using 1402 VLZ Pros, and was quite disappointed. Inputs were not clean and silent but “hissy” by comparison with VLZ Pro. I am VERY happy with my new 1402 VLZ3 though. Very clean, wide gain range and tons of headroom.

[David Eaks]

Also to mention that I agree with Peter about the mics. I have Sony ECM 55 and have not used ECM 77’s, but his over-all concept in choice of mic is “sound”.