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New user needs advice on mixer/recorder
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Ty/David – Thanks for the information about the mixers.
Peter/David – I’ve not had anyone suggest to me before that the SM58 wouldn’t do the job. I’ve been told that they would give me a good sound from 12″ away from the mouth and assumed that as a vocal/speech mic they would be fine. Certainly the dealer that sold them to me suggested that anyway. I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I was using omni-directional condensers but they just picked up too much room noise so I was recommended getting dynamic mics.
Those mic suggestions you gave me look great, but I would need at least four and at that price it’s too hot for my budget at the moment. With lav mics, I’d also have a problem if I had only four but then 5-6 people to record. I was thinking that at least with the SM58 it can be passed around?
I guess there’s no one-mic-fits-all solution but I thought the SM58 would cover most of the situations I find myself in (generally interior rooms with tons of room noise).
Anyway, great information guys, lots for me to think about for the future when I can add to my kit.
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HI Daniel
Ask yourself this. Why dont they use sm58’s on the news if theyre designed for speech use and can pick up adequately from that distance.
Also, why dont you give a rock star a personal clip mic. Its all about proximity to the sound source, exclusion of other airborn audio causing feedback, and the levels that the source will generate. Rock star is pretty high.
Spoken word, much much less. Id suggest that a dynamic mic like a 58 at that distance will be quiet and not too pleasing (and lacking in crispness, top end) Youll have to gain it high on the desk and then youll hear how good the mic pre’s are on the mixer.The only real problem with a personal on a panel of people is that as peoples heads turn to discuss to the left and then the right, you will get some off mic audio. Its a fairly small issue and you can lessen the effect by careful positioning on speakers, especially those on the edges of the group and they will only ever look / talk 1 way (inwards)
Solution is
. Put one on each lapel (but thats doubled your mic, mixer, cost issues.Another type of mic to consider would be an AKG 747. Its like a slim pen. Directional pick up and crisp. It is camera shot freindly and has a much better reach than sm58 etc. BUT will be a handful if youre mixing to a PA as well from a feedback pov. I think it needs phantom power, but not 100% sure.
I dont understand why you want to buy everything. Hire the right mics for the job. There are plenty of broadcast hire companies around who can hire radio mics, ecm 55s 77s akg 747s etc etc.
Hiring 5 x 77 might only cost £50 a day and a few XLRs.If youve already got the 58’s, what do your ears say. Do a test. put it on a table stand, in the position where it will need to be, then sit right back in the chair, as thats what your panel will do, turn away from the mic and chat normally to someone 6-8 feet away and record it. Dont project too much as they wont! Your recording will tell you the truth, and that will be the best you can hope for in a test situation. The real recording will be poorer as they wont be thinking about mics.
Lastly. if this were me, id position a 416 rifle mic about8 feet away and have a little of this mixed in under the personal mics. I mean just enough to add a little space or air. Personal mics can sound quite tight, and the rifle will open it up a tad. But be gentle with how much you mix in. if you can hear the rifle, its too much. it should be subliminal, and only apparent if you turn it off and on. Even then slight. Almost too much trouble to be bothered……but its not!!
Peter
Post Production Dubbing Mixer
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Thanks for this info, Peter. Appreciate you taking the time.
I was sold the SM58 by an audio retailer as being the mic that would do what we wanted having told them the problems we experienced with the condensers in ‘live’ situations.
This is their description:
“The SM58 is the most popular vocal microphone in the world for live performance, studio recording and speech.”
Like I say, they said they’d be good for speech but I’m starting to question whether I’ve been mis-sold?
The reason I (we) want to own the equipment is because we do about two or three of these events per month and the hiring costs would soon rack up I think. We also need to send the equipment out to regional reps to record certain events on occasions so gear that can stand up to being knocked about is quite important.
I’ve not yet tested the SM58 personally but I’ve heard it in action on videos and understand what you’re saying. In some events the person speaking will have to hold the mic, in others they are sat at a table with the mic on a stand/boom so I guess it’s up to us to ensure they use them correctly and for the moderator to control the line of questioning so it’s directed at one person.
Thanks again.
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re “The SM58 is the most popular vocal microphone in the world for live performance, studio recording and speech.”
Id walk out of the door of any studio that recorded on an sm58. Id suggest that Neumann u87i occupy that prestigious spot closely followed by a number of other mics whose price and quality makes the sm58 look like a disposable razor.
id agree that its is probably the most popular “vocal microphone in the world for live performance” ie live bands etc (though not the best)
I think the issue here is that you mentioned a “retailer” If you mean shop and not Pro audio supplier, then theres the differences.
PeterPost Production Dubbing Mixer
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Quite possibly. It was Digital Village so don’t know how they stack up in the scheme of things:
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Hi
Dv are pretty well respected. No worries there.
Im not suggesting youve been mis sold. i dont know what the conversations were regarding product and price and use etc etc, but its not what id be using in this situation. At £99 (including a boom stand and cable, it is a budget mic, and itll last you forever (even if you play the drums with it!!Maybe if youd asked them ” what would a broadcast sound recordist / engineer use to record 4 or 5 people having a discussion” you might have had other suggestions.
Im possibly a bit over picky. Cost isnt ever an issue to me when specifying a technical job. Only what is right for the job. And I dont have any corners cut, but Im lucky perhaps that , working in features and tv post and music post I can get quite demanding, and have my way!
My suggestion of Sony ecm77 is by no means a high cost solution. i was mindful of the cost when suggesting but theyre @£250 each. Similar in price to Sanken Cos-11 (my favourite personal mic.)
This is why I recommend hiring. its unlikely youre going to buy high quality kit.
PeterPost Production Dubbing Mixer
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Thanks Peter, I appreciate your honesty and respect the professional position you’re coming from. I absolutely understand you get what you pay for!
Ideally I’d love to arrive at the venue with a few mic options in my kit but I think I asked DV for a good all-rounder for the recordings I do that wouldn’t break the bank and could take a bit of abuse. I guess they thought the SM58 fitted the bill.
If nothing else I’ll have some more mics in my collection and I can start saving toward some of your suggestions.
Cheers
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“Id put Sony ecm77s on each person( if you want wired) or sennheiser g3 radios. Discreet, always in the ideal place, close pickup pattern, bright, camera freindly, good level output.”
Peter, any omni gets really scary if you have PA in the house. Most events I’ve worked do because there’s an audience.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide -
David,
Without knowing how you were using it, I can’t respond to the noise issue. Usually hiss in a Mackie is a op error impedance mis-match or gain staging problem.
Regardless, here’s a used 1402-VLZ3:
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide -
Peter/David – I’ve not had anyone suggest to me before that the SM58 wouldn’t do the job. I’ve been told that they would give me a good sound from 12″ away from the mouth and assumed that as a vocal/speech mic they would be fine. Certainly the dealer that sold them to me suggested that anyway. I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I was using omni-directional condensers but they just picked up too much room noise so I was recommended getting dynamic mics.
>>>>Dan, that’s two issues A. Dynamic vs condenser and B. Omni versus cardioid. You can also get condenser omnis (but not for this job) and cardioid dynamics. The SM58 is cardioid.
Those mic suggestions you gave me look great, but I would need at least four and at that price it’s too hot for my budget at the moment. With lav mics, I’d also have a problem if I had only four but then 5-6 people to record. I was thinking that at least with the SM58 it can be passed around?
>>>>Yes, also get foam pop filters for those who must eat the mic.
I guess there’s no one-mic-fits-all solution but I thought the SM58 would cover most of the situations I find myself in (generally interior rooms with tons of room noise).
>>>>Yes, the SM58 will work and out to about a foot. I mention to the people sitting at the panel table to get about 6 inches away so they sound better and avoid feedback. About 3/4 of them “get it.”
>>>>Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
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