New user needs advice on mixer/recorder

[Ty Ford]

Peter,

WADR, please read the op. It’s a panel discussion, not a music session.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Cow Audio Forum Leader
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide

[David Eaks]

[Ty Ford] “Without knowing how you were using it, I can’t respond to the noise issue. Usually hiss in a Mackie is a op error impedance mis-match or gain staging problem.”

Testing each board with two Neumann KM 84’s, listening with Sony MDR 7506 headphones. Switching out the mixer from FX8 to 1402 VLZ Pro and back again to compare the sound of each board in the same setup.

[Peter Groom]

TY

re
WADR, please read the op. It’s a panel discussion, not a music session.

Ive no idea what WADR means.
Also Ive no idea why you think i think its a music session. The only point where ill suggest about music is that this is def where i feel the sm58 sits in the market. Stage use with high spls, not quality recording.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Ty Ford]

Peter,

WADR = with all due respect.

OK, you’re not a fan of the SM58, I think that’s apparent. ECM 77b or any lav require attachment and in many situations where studio best practices acoustics don’t exist, an omni lav is a recipe for feedback and/or hollow sound.

It’s a panel recording at an number of venues over time under certain budgetary restraints. I and many others have used SM58 effectively in this situations many times. In the event videography business where x number of people sit at a table and speak. They work. And, actually with the right preamp, the SM58 sounds a lot better.

Sorry, Peter, I’m sticking with the SM58 in this particular case. If I could, I’d use Audio Technica AE5400 condenser mics. I like ’em better than Neumann KMS 104/105, especially when someone eats the mic.

Season’s best,

Ty Ford

Cow Audio Forum Leader
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide

[Daniel James]

Season’s best to all you guys for getting involved with this. Really appreciate your comments and experience.

The Audio Technica AE5400 condenser mics look like a great logical step up for my needs, Ty. I’ll add them to my wish list. Cheers.

All the best.

[Christi O’donnell]

I have a question to your question. Just because I am curious. Why would you use a dynamic microphone? I know that is what you are supposed to use, but I don’t understand why? I have always thought that you should use condenser mics for voice.

Christi O’Donnell
Producer and Composer
http://www.rarepoprecords.com

[Ty Ford]

Hi Christi,

Dynamic mics don’t have the high frequency response that condensers do. Having said that, most of the frequencies in the male and female voice are within the bandwidth of a good dynamic mic.

AM radio extends to 10 kHz. FM radio and TV extend to 15 kHz. That’s why when you listen to AM versus FM/TV, you can hear that AM sound a little muddy compared to FM/TV.

Back to mics. A good dynamic mic is better, in all occasions, than a bad condenser mic. There are a lot of bad condenser mics in the market now that were commissioned to be made in China. They are bright and harsh, but to the novice ear, this particular brightness (at first) seems more attractive. Over time it becomes very fatiguing to listen to.

Dynamics are not as sensitive as most condensers. The implication is that you may need more preamp gain. If your preamps are noisy, and some cheap ones are, you’ll bring up the hiss along with the voice level.

For years studios and broadcast in the US used ribbon mics. The old ribbon mics are even less sensitive than dynamic mics are require even ore preamp gain. New ribbons by Shure, Audio Tehnica and Cloud, are much less fragile and have better frequency response, but they typically don’t have the high frequency response of a dynamic or condenser; rolling off between 10kHz and 12 kHz.

Another factor is the size of the diaphragm. Typically, the larger the diaphragm, the less noise. So an ElectoVoice RE20 dynamic might have a better noise figure than a Sony ECM 77B condenser lav, simply because the RE20 diaphragm is many times bigger. So when the RE20 diaphragm moves when spoken into, that movement generates significantly more voltage than the tiny diaphragm inside a Sony ECM 77B. You might like the frequency response of the ECM 77B better because of the extended high frequency response, but you still have to deal with the hiss from the extra gain needed to increase the smaller ECM 77B voltage to a usable level.

Off the top of my head, good dynamic mics are…
Shure SM7, SM7b
Sennheiser 421 (not the 421 II)
Sennheiser 431
Sennheiser 441
Electro-Voice RE20
Electro-Voice RE27

Merry Xmas Eve,

Ty Ford

Cow Audio Forum Leader
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide