ioHD vs. KiPro

[Jeremy Garchow]

Hello, Roland. I do not work for AJA, but I will try and answer some of your questions.

Simply, the Ki Pro is not a post production device, rather it is an acquisition device. You take the Ki Pro on a shoot to record your footage, you put it in your broadcast truck to record and playback your footage, you stick on a crane for wireless control of recording. What it doesn’t do is sit on your desk passing video from FCP (although it can pass through and convert video via the base band ins and outs).

You can simply take the Ki Pro’s hard drive, plug it in to a MacBook Pro and bring your footage in for editing (or edit right off of the cartridge if you are in a time crunch). You can also export a ProRes or HQ movie from FCP, put it on the Ki Pro’s hard drive and playback your program that way.

As of right now, the Ki Pro will not allow you to monitor your FCP timeline.

[Roland Blaser] “How should we use the ioHD together with the KiPro, both using full Firewire performance? “

What are you trying to do?

Jeremy

[Chris Thomsen]

Hello,

i asked to Aja:

“Do you think, that it is possible to use the Ki Pro in future also as an external Video i/o-Card?”

Their answer:

“I’ve spoken with the Ki Pro product managers and a couple of engineers regarding your video i/o card question. Basically, the Ki-Pro hardware has that capability, but it is not a feature we are implementing at this time. Unfortunately, I cannot give you an estimate on when this feature will be available.”

Greetings C. Thomsen

[Jeremy Garchow]

That is true, Chris. Is not out of the realm of possibility, it’s just not something that is directly planned.

Jeremy

[Roland Blaser]

Well, I know that AJA calls the KiPro an acquisition device. However, technically it is something like an AJA ioHD with recording and playback capabilities, right?
What I want to do? I just do what most of us or at least many of us do: I use the AJA ioHD as an interface for feeding the FCP timeline output to an external monitor. As we know, AJA is telling us that the ioHD needs the full Firewire throughput and we shouldn’t connect any other Firewire units to the Mac at the same time. And now the very same company brings a solution that needs Firewire? In other words: you can’t edit in FCP with an external monitor (via ioHD) and having KiPro’s Firewire HD connected at the same time? Or you need a second Firewire controller, right? Doesn’t make too much sense to me. And as the KiPro is nearly an AJA ioHD (plus recording/playback): is the idea to use it as a view trough unit for connecting an external monitor when editing in FCP so stupid?
My finding: It’s not so much of a technical question, they simply want us to buy both units because it’s better for the business.
Once more: I like the AJA stuff but here I have a problem. It’s not only a question of money, it’s a question of carrying two units around when one could do the job. AJA, this couldn’t be your last word concerning this question. Just enable view through in your KiPro firmware and everybody is happy…

Cheers, Roland

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Roland Blaser] “However, technically it is something like an AJA ioHD with recording and playback capabilities, right? “

In the sense that it can accept and output video, yes. Otherwise, the Ki Pro is like a VTR. The Ki Pro basically takes the place of an ioHD, a laptop and an external hard drive when out in the field. They are very different. Yes, the have some cross over functionality as all AJA video products basically send video in and out, but they have very different functions. As has been mentioned, maybe someday the Ki Pro can be used an ioHD of sorts, but for now it won’t. If you need to connect your IoHD and the Ki Pro/Ki Pro hard drive cartridge, for file transfers (you do know that the hard drive pops out kind of like a tape, right?) then you will need a separate fw bus which is the same for any firewire transfer when using the ioHD. There is nothing different about that.

[Roland Blaser] “is the idea to use it as a view trough unit for connecting an external monitor when editing in FCP so stupid? “

No, not at all, it’s a very logical thought, especially for a one man band, but if you have an editor that is editing back at the studio (and needs the Ki Pro to monitor) and a shooter out in the field that needs the Ki Pro to record the shoot with, you are going to need two devices anyway. Also, as I said before, you can export a ProRes Quicktime movie from FCP, load that on the the removable Ki Pro hard drive and playback from the Ki Pro.

[Roland Blaser] “Just enable view through in your Ki Pro firmware and everybody is happy… “

See Chris’s post. He said he talked to AJA. Have you tried that yet? Instead of getting mad and accusing AJA of wanting to empty your pocketbook, perhaps you can send them a nice email and ask them nicely to do what you are proposing. Believe me when I tell you, I am sure they want to hear what you have to say as they are constantly looking for ways to make your life easier.

Jeremy

[Roland Blaser]

“See Chris’s post. He said he talked to AJA. Have you tried that yet? Instead of getting mad and accusing AJA of wanting to empty your pocketbook, perhaps you can send them a nice email and ask them nicely to do what you are proposing. Believe me when I tell you, I am sure they want to hear what you have to say as they are constantly looking for ways to make your life easier.”

Jeremy, you got me wrong if you think I’m against AJA. Of course, I emailed them already concerning this question. But aren’t forums like this made for people like us who want to discuss such matters open minded? Or do we just have to accept what the industry decides for whatever reasons?

I wanted to post this topic to see whether other FCP users have the same point of view or whether I’m the only one who would like to buy a KiPro as a replacement for the ioHD in case AJA would change their mind concerning the view through. So the idea is: Hey AJA, why not making a nice product even better and more attractive for some of us? What’s wrong with that, Jeremy???

I expect AJA to read forums like this. And therefore it’s important that discussions like this are possible. It’s not about accusing somebody for whatever, of course.

But in case you want me to be more positive concerning AJA, I’m happy to tell this:

Recently my ioHD’s composite input/output died. AJA’s support helped me to identify the problem and the unit has been replaced within a couple of days. In other words: a great service.

[Gary Adcock]

[Roland Blaser] “I wanted to post this topic to see whether other FCP users have the same point of view or whether I’m the only one who would like to buy a KiPro as a replacement for the ioHD in case AJA would change their mind concerning the view through.”

That would be true, if the KiPro was meant to be a replacement for the IoHD, but it is not, it is a standalone device that is capable of recording internally – without an attached computer.

As far as I know most DDR/ onboard recorders are only used for one thing recording and playing back the content as recorded. I do not know of any that are used for separate I/O functions.

> “So the idea is: Hey AJA, why not making a nice product even better and more attractive for some of us?”

Com’on.. the KiPRo is not even shipping and won’t be til late june, not to mention that very few people have actually seen a working unit and you want changes to suit your personal wants and needs.

I plan to actually see what the KiPro will do before I decide what should be changed, since AJA has a history of surprising people with their tools.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Roland Blaser] “But aren’t forums like this made for people like us who want to discuss such matters open minded?”

Of course.

[Roland Blaser] “Or do we just have to accept what the industry decides for whatever reasons? “

Sometimes.

[Roland Blaser] “What’s wrong with that, Jeremy??? “

Absolutely nothing, as I mentioned before, it is a logical thought. Your comment does not fall on deaf ears.

[Roland Blaser] ” It’s not about accusing somebody for whatever, of course. “

Well, then it’s all my fault as I took your comments to mean that AJA was out to get you to buy another device just because they can, not taking in to account how different the ioHD and Ki Pro’s functions are despite some hardware similarities. Perhaps this is not what you meant.

My point is to not to get you to speak well of AJA. They have their own reputation to uphold, and I think they do it well. When you start understand what exactly it they are doing with the Ki Pro, you will realize that the Ki Pro is not an FCP monitoring tool at this time. It is not the way it was designed, tested or the way they are planning to roll it out as far as I know. At NAB, the word was that the fw800 port is going to be used for a host mode so that you can transfer all of your data from the hard drive/ExpressCards all at once. Are all the ports there for future capability? Why yes they are. There’s AES bnc audio on my ioHD that I never use, but I am glad it’s there. As a v1 application, the Ki Pro has to prove itself in the field first before proving itself on the edit desk. I am not right, you are not wrong. AJA is on record saying the Ki Pro will not be used for monitoring from FCP right now, but ss Gary mentioned, things can change at any moment. The lanc/lens tap/rs-422/VFR features are also not slated to be enabled on V1 but are planned to go active in a not so distant future software update.

Jeremy

[Roland Blaser]

Gary, you are right! Let’s wait and see first.

Take my input as a topic on the wish list. However it looks like others have the same wish (at least found one further down in this forum). I’m pretty sure it’s just a question of “playing” with the firmware and AJA will do it earlier or later anyway.

By the way: There is no need to defend AJA’s product philosophy beacuse there is nothing to fight. I really got the message that it is a record/playback unit. However, as a TV journalist I’m used to ask questions like this. I apologize if somebody got the idea it is my intention to fight against AJA. I use my ioHD daily and I’m happy so far. I’m waiting for the KiPro as you do because Apple’s ProRes is just great and it makes totally sense to offer a recorder/player like the KiPro. I plan to use it for taking reports and footage out of my TV station’s video archive, ingesting the stuff into my FCP editing suite. And I plan to use it vice versa, bringing the final product back to my TV station.

Up to know I used either tape or XDCAM for this. But after changing the video stuff so many times in the past, I’m tired of proprietary solutions. By using ProRes and offering any kind of formats (SD/HD in different standards) the KiPro will be a unit that will do the job for many years…

Roland

[Roland Blaser]

Jeremy, I couldn’t agree more with you!