i invite discusion: does apple know about these “issues”

[Tunaking]

“One frame remnants aren’t invisible, just really small” like one frame right? BUT in some cases they are really invisible. no matter how far you zoom in they are not there, nor do they appear when you scroll, shuttle, or play through them.”

I have never seen these one frame (invisible) remnants in five years of editing in FCP. And I have not read about them on the boards before you mentioned them.

Is there a repeatable way to create them?

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Bob Flood] “you should too!”

Believe me, I have.

Jeremy

[Tom Wolsky]

This is only instance in which the application does not show you the correct frame. It shows you the so-called magic frame, the frame before the playhead. That’s why the blue overlay indicator is used to show you you’re on last frame, while the playhead is on black.

All the best,

Tom

Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” DVD

[Jeremy Garchow]

Not true, it happens if there’s a clip there instead of black. Arrow down to the end of the clip you want to mark out on , hit out, and export it. You will see the first frame from the next clip. Unless you hit arrow down (to get to the end of the clip), left arrow (to park your playhead on the last frame) and o, you’ll get an ‘extra’ frame. Media 100 never operated like this. It always new you wanted to move back a frame so as not to include that extra frame. This has been a long standing complaint with FCP. Not a big deal when you know that’s what FCP does, but every millisecond counts in the world of computing.

Jeremy

[Tom Wolsky]

I’m sorry I raised your ire. I don’t know you, just what you’ve written, and I gather from your first messages that you’re new to the application, so I have no way of knowing what you know or what you don’t know.

I’m sorry the O key does not include an extra frame. What you want for it is to include one less frame, one less than the frame you’re looking at. So if I’m marking I/O on a shot I have to go one frame past the last frame I want so I can mark the out point.

Yes, in a sequence Shift-O takes you to the end of the sequence. In the viewer it takes you to the out point.

It’s actually not the way you edit film. On a Moviola or Steenbeck you can mark before or after the frame, and most editors will mark to make the cut after the last frame they want.

All the best,

Tom

Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” DVD

[Gary Hughes]

Slow Motion: I completely agree. If you’re going to limit me to one way of doing a speed change, then make the in point sit still on the clip and the sequence, then make the out point of the clip move so that the out point on the sequence doesn’t change. Otherwise, changing a preference to one way or the other for your default choice would be nice. There could be a simple check box right inside the motion tab, right beside the speed value. Just let me choose which way it works by default. That way, I can choose to have it slip the out point of the clip, while someone else can choose to have it slip the out point of the sequence by default. I agree that having to click the option every time I change speed would be extra effort, however I also agree that most of us would agree that having the option would be nice.

Slow Motion (gripe number 2): I went from 5 years on Discreet Edit to Pinnacle Liquid Edition to FCP. A few years ago, Discreet Edit had slow motion that looked at least as good if not better than FCP. Pinnacle LE’s version 5 (I think they’re on version 7 now), believe it or not, has INCREDIBLE looking slow motion. Where FCP has frame blending, LE has field blending and it looks great. I intended to sell my LE system, but it didn’t take me long at all to realize that FCP was lacking in comparison, when it comes to slow motion. I still haven’t gone back to LE, but if I really need nice slow motion, I will. It looked almost as nice as pixel interpolation. I know this is an issue that they will eventually work on, but I wish it were sooner rather than later.

Ignoring transitions on cut and paste: I agree that this needs to be worked on.

Mark out includes an extra frame: I understand both ways. Discreet worked the way that FCP doesn’t, so I was used to that. I do feel that having to back up a frame is extra effort that I shouldn’t have to do, but I got used to it real fast. It doesn’t bother me now, although I would like to see that change as well. I can’t remember how LE worked, or media 100 from years ago. I’ve only worked on an Avid occasionally, so I can’t speak intelligently about it, but I seem to remember other Avid editors claiming that it worked the way FCP does. If so, I’d guess that that’s why FCP works the way it does.

Paste attribute shortcuts: Good idea. Never thought about it before. Keyboard shortcuts are so easily changed in FCP, there may be a way to do it now providing you custom make it. I don’t know.

As for making the program user friendly and not too customizable, that’s a crock. User adaptable is the way to go, and obviously Apple agrees. You can completly customize the keyboard shortcuts to emulate an Avid, or a Discreet, or whatever other NLE, AND there are multiple places to go to set preferences and options and settings. In these days of flash memory, customizing and moving to another system just shouldn’t be a problem. I haven’t done it yet, but I believe you can store all your settings on a jumpdrive and carry it to another system making resetting a system so incredibly simple. I have emailed a custom capture preset to a producer so I know that much is simple.

I love threads like this. It really gets you thinking. Thanks Bob for posting the issues and thanks to all the rest for giving your input. By the way, other than Pinnacle’s (now Avid), better slow motion, I couldn’t imaging editing on anything other than FCP now. I really love it. That does’t mean it’s perfect. That just means it rocks.

Happy editing,
Gary

[Tom Wolsky]

That’s right, because the down arrow does not take you to the end of the shot which is where the application marks an out point. Your previous message said it “should show you black” which I took to mean it didn’t show you black. It doesn’t show you black if you’re at the end of a sequence; personally I wish it would rather than the end frame. I would also mean that playback would stop in black rather than the last frame, which would make record out simpler, but that’s another story.

The down arrow takes you to the next edit event, and what you see is the first frame of the gap between the shot. You want to go to the last frame of the previous shot. When you see black in the frame in the gap you also see the first frame overlay to tell you you’re on the first frame of the next edit. If you mark an out point it includes that frame.Talking about milliseconds, the two keys we’re talking out the down and left arrow key are side-by-side.

All the best,

Tom

Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” DVD

[Jeremy Garchow]

Well, whatever. It’s not a big deal, you see it one way I see it another. You like it, I don’t. In the meantime, let’s all do fun projects and edit happily.

As I sometimes do when the conversation gets heated and people disagree, I encourage everyone to take a look at this:

https://www.trevorvanmeter.com/flyguy/

None of us can be as fly of a guy/gal. Make sure you see the yogi/shaman. He likes to raise the roof.

[Tom Wolsky]

You’re talking about marking an edit point in the timeline and you’re referring to how it edits to tape. Yes, that’s the way tape works. So let me ask you, in your view, if you’re marking I/O for a clip opened from the browser into the viewer, you would find the frame where you want the shot to end and then go forward one frame to the frame after that shot, maybe the first frame after a shot change, to mark your out point. Is that what you want? That would be consistent with what you’d like it to do in the timeline. Or would you like the viewer out point behavior to be different from the timeline out point behavior? Currently they’re both the same.

All the best,

Tom

Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” DVD

[Bob Flood]

Tom

afterseeing your kind freindly face up in the forum header i am reconsidering my boycotting of your education materials. as we say in yiddish “such a shayna punom” (sic)

i want the i and the o button to behave like parentheses.

when i press i it will delineeate all of the material forward of that point, inclusive of the my mark and when i press o it will delineate all the material previous of the mark excluding the frame i am looking at.

i guess i never considered in all the years of doing this that when i press o i wont get the frame i am seeing. i have become so used to doing this way i never gave it much thought.i think i have gotten used to marking out after what i want.

however. if there were a setting to include or exclude that frame i think it would be a user preference, as some people see it your way, and some dont

i agree that when certain parameters are in the preferences it is a pain to keep swapping them. for example i was trying to finish 2 jobs up, one was sd and one was hdv. i had to keep swithcing my av settings so i could se waht i was doing on my ntsc monitor. even with a custom easy setup or 2 it would have been annoying.

but lets keep talking

bee eph

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.