FCPX or R15?

[Oliver Peters]

[Bill Davis] “The editorial engine is a traditional stacked track setup, but the minute you go to color stuff, you’re in node land – which may not be the most obvious neighborhood to move into”

The editorial model is quite simple. If you don’t mind tracks, it’s easier to grasp than FCPX for many newbies. As far as color, you can, of course, leave that to later. But even in the color page, you don’t have to go deep. The first node is there by default and in a single node, you can do more than the entire color toolset of FCPX (without building up correction layers).

– Oliver

Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com

[Neil Sadwelkar]

[Scott Witthaus] “And Oliver, didn’t you say that Avid and Discreet failed in their attempt to make the “all in one” system. So why do you think Black Magic can do any better?”

Avid DS, Quantel eQ/iQ, Discreet(Autodesk) Smoke, and Foundry Nuke Studio, examples of ‘all-in-one’ (AIO) systems but they different from DVR 15 because of price, and hardware independence.
At the price of Avid DS, eQ/iQ, Smoke, Nuke Studio, one has to be hugely committed financially, to the concept. Their ongoing costs were/are high too – maintenance/upgrade taxes.

And, more importantly one has to have a person/s who can effectively use the system and earn revenue on it. And you’ve got to be able to keep the gal/guy happy. If they quit, your business goes with them.

For a brief period in the 2003-5 timeframe, Shake with Tremor was trying to be this AIO (All-in One) dream system too. That went away before it came.

The way I think DVR 15 may work as an AIO is to be one system, but 4 heads.
One asst editor to set up project import, sync and organise stuff, one editor who edits, one (or more) VFX artists who can do the keying/comping/cleanups in Fusion, and one sound engineer to do the sound sweetening and mix.
All four can take turns working on the same project and same system with no media being sent in and out.

Or, because of the price, one can actually have four separate DVR 15 systems for these four individuals, and they can all work on the same project. Maybe even at the same time. I’ve not used collaborative project work in Resolve, but if that’s usable, then this is even better, the exact same project open in 4 places.
This is huge, and something never possible, (at least economically) with the previous AIO systems.

If there is a time crunch, all 4 systems can become Fusion systems, or all 4 can be grading systems, or sound post systems.

Another thing is that unlike the previous AIO attempts, Resolve is Mac/Win/Linux, so one can (potentially) have the same project open on multiple platforms.

Of course, the same is somewhat possible with Adobe CC as well, but at a much higher cost.

———————————–
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India

[Robin S. kurz]

[Walter Soyka] “but you’ve actually used CineForm?”

Heck yeah. A while back that was what a TV Pilot I edited was shot on exclusively. It was completely unusable natively. A complete no go on every system involved in the edit (the Avid’s were of course completely lost either way). A little faster slide-show than RED, but without transcoding to something else… useless for actual work. PR raw isn’t even an issue on an old iMac or MBP, off which I’m doing 4K 50p natively. Shall we compare that with 4K 50p Cineform footage on the same machines? ????

[Walter Soyka] “I find it to be highly comparable to ProRes in image quality, file size, and performance. “

If you say so. But then I guess you had an entirely different version, max 720p, or simply a computer that was 5x more powerful in every respect. In which case… that’s the whole point. All completely unnecessary with PR raw.

But seriously… if that were in fact true, and it was as brilliant as you say, then why exactly hasn’t everyone (including BMD) adopted it as opposed to that (imho) nonsensical cDNG? Hmmm…

[Walter Soyka] “Let’s ask Grant!”

Let’s not. Since, if you had actually worked with PR raw, you’d know what he’s claiming is complete hogwash and he of all people should seriously know better, don’t you think? Claiming „it’s a lookup table and a bayer package” or “it’s a container with a LUT“… HUH? Either he’s being willfully obtuse or just plain has no clue what PR raw in fact is all about and just going off guesses from some demo he saw somewhere? PR raw as a format has ZERO to do with lookup tables until it is inside FCP. And even then, they are 100% optional. So what exactly is he going on about? PR raw merely encapsulates the camera’s metadata into the file, and, exactly as it has been doing since 10.3 with e.g. FS7 material off the camera, applying a — once again optional — standard LUT upon import, if it has one for the particular profile. Somewhat worrisome that he of all people would spread something so factually incorrect.

Fact is, BMD’s already not so romantic (to put it very diplomatically) relationship with AtomOS, inevitably leads me to suspect, that he/they are just miffed that they were bypassed for the big news for both their hardware AND software (ouchy), but AtomOS not only wasn’t bypassed (understandably), but even got exclusive dibs. Eek! So I suspect now they’re pouting and playing coy as some sort of “PR-getback”? Saying “it has issues” and “it’s for consumers at the moment“… oh really? ???? I guess we’ll see about that.

“The reason you want to do that is to bypass that stage and go into DaVinci…” oh yeah. And Davinci only. Obviously.

… oh wait… you can’t. Oops. So clearly it must suck! Case closed. ????

Now I see what “issues” he’s talking about. Not format but rather ego issues maybe? Acting as if they are the only one’s that “know high-end-Mr.-Hollwood color science!” and that silly little phone company of course doesn’t. Cleverly turning it into a sales-pitch for Resolve by effectively implying that “you can only trust us when it comes to quality color“… wow. That much hubris etched forever into the Tube? Be careful that doesn’t come back from behind and…

Someone’s coming across as a bit of a poor loser with incorrect statements like that. Because I highly doubt that BMD is getting around adopting PR raw sooner not later. As soon as more people get it into their hands, they’ll be screaming for it as an option and opting for cameras that do offer it, guaranteed more often than not. In a year or less, the question will be “but does it do ProRes raw?” and I suspect be an ever more deciding factor whether to go with the one or the other. Or I could be completely wrong… then again… nah. ????

We shall see.

– RK

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[Scott Witthaus]

[Walter Soyka] “Let’s ask Grant!”

Boy, I am really disappointed in this interview. Actually it’s more like a PR/sales piece because the interviewer is tossing softballs.

Grant acts like R15 is the first system that EVER allowed an editor to play with color, audio and FX. Really? Expanding our world? Psychopath facility owners….way to go, Grant. Making friends.

And wow, if you don’t want to use Fusion, that’s ok because all the effects in the Edit tab are Fusion effects. Hmm, where have I seen this before? Dynamic linking? I am sure I have seen that somewhere before R15…

R15 will be a decent tool for those who want it, but it’s not the savior to all of us poor shackled editors that it’s made out to be here.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter

[Robin S. kurz]

Since I’m not one to install beta software willy-nilly, I’m in no position to check for myself, but after just seeing THIS…
https://youtu.be/cLnT3XFbyKk?t=82
(starting at 1:22)

… boy do I hope that r15’s performance isn’t only better than r14’s, but in fact a few HUNDRED TIMES improved. Since this is just scary. I knew from passing use (of the editing page) that performance was bad, but… needing an eGPU with TWO beefy GPUs just to get realtime with a few 1080p clips that have effects, on a 2017 MBP?! Over AN HOUR for an 8-minute export without them?

They’re kidding… right?

Even a base model iMac from a few years back would give me realtime and a fraction of export times running FCP. What’s wrong with this picture? Surely there’s something horribly amiss? How else could or would anyone consider this for even the most basic editing?

– RK

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[Oliver Peters]

[Scott Witthaus] “Grant acts like R15 is the first system that EVER allowed an editor to play with color, audio and FX. Really? Expanding our world? Psychopath facility owners….way to go, Grant. Making friends.”

Is this the first time you’ve been exposed to Grant? This is all pretty standard fair for him. He’s a man on a mission. Why do you think there’s been no love lost between AJA and BMD? Kind of ironic comments for someone he is also a facility owner, don’t you think? ☺

– Oliver

Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com

[Steve Connor]

[Robin S. Kurz] “Even a base model iMac from a few years back would give me realtime and a fraction of export times running FCP. What’s wrong with this picture? Surely there’s something horribly amiss? How else could or would anyone consider this for even the most basic editing?
“

This is rubbish, I’ve just finished an FCPX project shot on Alexa on R15 in HD and the performance was excellent on my 2013 MacBook Pro, not as fast as FCPX of course but still very usable.

\”Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines\” W.Soyka

[Steve Connor]

[Oliver Peters] “Is this the first time you’ve been exposed to Grant? This is all pretty standard fair for him. He’s a man on a mission. Why do you think there’s been no love lost between AJA and BMD? Kind of ironic comments for someone he is also a facility owner, don’t you think? ☺”

It sounds a little like Apple PR don’t you think ☺

Not sure why some of the FCPX faithful are so riled up about R15, we should be excited, it plays very well with FCPX and strikes a bit of a blow to Adobe!

\”Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines\” W.Soyka

[Robin S. kurz]

[Neil Sadwelkar] “The way I think DVR 15 may work as an AIO is to be one system, but 4 heads.
One asst editor to set up project import, sync and organise stuff, one editor who edits, one (or more) VFX artists who can do the keying/comping/cleanups in Fusion, and one sound engineer to do the sound sweetening and mix.
All four can take turns working on the same project and same system with no media being sent in and out. “

But then I’d venture to say, that you’re describing criteria that barely speak to even 1% of potential users. Meaning, not a deciding factor whether to go with Resolve or not for the vast majority. So even if all that is true and possible, I don’t see how those aspects in and of themselves could affect the actual, overall marketshare in any significant way in the end, i.e. sway MASSES (of ANY level) to migrate from what they already have or know. The masses will have an entirely different trough of criteria that are relevant to them first and foremost. No?

– RK

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[Bill Davis]

[Oliver Peters] “Well, no one is/was talking about the consumer/retail side of this at all. But if you what to position FCPX as a “prosumer” product, go right ahead ☺”

Happy to.

The R&D clout of being able to leverage sales in the millions is what changes industries in the current climate – not exclusively what serves the enterprise class.

Just ask the corporate business types who bet on Blackberries and whatched the tide of iPhones and iPads roll over them.

That rumor from a couple of years ago that Apple had something like 600 folks working exclusively on the iPhone camera section – is surely a part of why we now have phones that can shoot 4k and why they are moving so heavily and rapidly into news gathering and other traditional ENG camera spaces.

Heck, the last few months, I successfully managed to get XLR wireless audio direct into my iPhone X via the lightening port. I can set manual white balance and focus. The images are commensurate with what I had the first 20 years I spent as a shooter – and it’s always with me.

And there is surely nothing more “consumer” nor “retail” than a smart phone.

Basically when the “consumer” level devices – at mass “consumer” level price points – start to functionally out-perform the “professional” devices well, that that’s when things start to really shift.

Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.