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An NLE change from FCP poll results
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “But if I recall it was some Apple spokesperson, in a Las Vegas hotel room “pointing to” SCRI figures. So it wasn’t a claim from Apple.”
I was in one of those, and yes, that’s the case.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “Computer sales in the video world are roughly 50/50.”
This number comes from where?
[Oliver Peters] “Based on what info? There are plenty of corporate, print and web users of CS that are only on PC. “
Based on the fact that Adobe’s overall sales are 50/50, and you’re crazy if you think e.g. corporate document management is as heavily Mac-based as Creative Suite.
[Oliver Peters] “A quote from 2007 is ancient by this point in time.”
Only if there’s some cognizable reason to believe Apple’s share of the general creative market has been dropping over the last several years, despite the Mac’s very good overall performance over that time period.
As far as the ‘aspiring’ market, Mac laptops have also become fairly ludicrously popular with college students — and again, you’re crazy if you don’t think that’s higher among film students and lower among (say) accounting students.
Again, the point of comparison here is classic FCP. To believe that being Mac-only will be a significant barrier to FCP X, when it (apparently) wasn’t to classic FCP, you’d need to show something like the Mac’s share among relevant user groups declining. Available data, to the extent that we have it, seems to indicate the opposite.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Chris Kenny] “This number comes from where?”
The same anecdotal comments from manufacturers as yours. 😉
[Chris Kenny] “As far as the ‘aspiring’ market, Mac laptops have also become fairly ludicrously popular with college students — and again, you’re crazy if you don’t think that’s higher among film students and lower among (say) accounting students.”
Here you are referencing a very limited analysis based on intent, not actual purchases. Also only based on 3 vendors, not all vendors. I’m not saying that the cheapest ($999) MacBook hasn’t been popular among students, but in reality I don’t see 50% penetration among the film students I run across. The exceptions are the private film schools, where a Mac laptop (with installed Apple software) is often part of their purchased supplies. Obviously this discussion is limited to video editing and doesn’t include other portions of the industry, like video game production, which is heavily skewed towards the PC world.
In any case, laptops are increasingly irrelevant. Probably too, the split between Mac OS and other OSs. New splits will emerge – iOS versus Chrome versus Android versus Windows 8. Apple’s Q4 2012 numbers show a decline in Mac sales and my guess is that in a few years, the traditional laptop will be gone in favor of advanced tablets – both iPad and Surface variants. Most people who own laptops these days use them as desktop replacements.
[Chris Kenny] “To believe that being Mac-only will be a significant barrier to FCP X, when it (apparently) wasn’t to classic FCP, you’d need to show something like the Mac’s share among relevant user groups declining.”
I don’t believe I ever said anything about this being a barrier to FCP X. I do know that Apple’s interpretation of the migration numbers is different than Adobe’s. In fact, Apple pointed to the SCRI study a year ago and noted that where there had been migration, it was to Avid. I also personally know of some broadcast groups who no longer will accept bids with Apple products, thanks to recent history with Xserve, Xserve RAID and FCS. That may turn around, but at the enterprise level, people are open to other options.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I’m not saying that the cheapest ($999) MacBook hasn’t been popular among students, but in reality I don’t see 50% penetration among the film students I run across.”
I find this entirely baffling. I cannot recall running across a single instance of a film student using a non-Mac system in years — and again, if you combine the general data on FCP market share with Adobe’s platform breakdown, it’s really hard to come to the conclusion that the Mac isn’t at 70%+. Maybe not in, say, 3D, but across video, graphic design, etc.
[Oliver Peters] “In any case, laptops are increasingly irrelevant. Probably too, the split between Mac OS and other OSs. New splits will emerge – iOS versus Chrome versus Android versus Windows 8. Apple’s Q4 2012 numbers show a decline in Mac sales and my guess is that in a few years, the traditional laptop will be gone in favor of advanced tablets – both iPad and Surface variants. Most people who own laptops these days use them as desktop replacements.”
This may be eventually (I think pro video will be one of the last holdouts on traditional desktop platforms for a while), but of course Apple is much stronger in the tablet market than the Mac ever was in the PC market, so it hardly represents an additional barrier to the adoption of software that only supports Apple platforms.
[Oliver Peters] “I don’t believe I ever said anything about this being a barrier to FCP X.”
That was the context of this discussion.
[Oliver Peters] “I also personally know of some broadcast groups who no longer will accept bids with Apple products, thanks to recent history with Xserve, Xserve RAID and FCS.”
Perhaps, but this applies to a numerically tiny slice of the general creative market.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Chris Kenny] “I find this entirely baffling. I cannot recall running across a single instance of a film student using a non-Mac system in years”
You need to get out more 😉 I actually run across quite a few who have come up from a high school media program that was running Premiere on PCs.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
And speaking of Premiere Pro, these guys are an Avid DS house:
https://tv.adobe.com/watch/customer-stories-video-film-and-audio/kappa-studios-and-annoying-orange
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “And speaking of Premiere Pro, these guys are an Avid DS house:
https://tv.adobe.com/watch/customer-stories-video-film-and-audio/kappa-studi...”
That was just cool… I always love to see people do amazing work with relatively simple, off the shelf tools. 1.3 billion views online… wow.
Shawn
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[Chris Kenny] “You’re seriously overselling this. “
Nope. There’s a reason why rock ‘n roll trim tools are considered Avid’s crown jewels by the film industry. It’s also a big factor in why the industry has been resistant to change. True, enterprise and large commercial post is generally slow to embrace new technologies, but up to now, there’s been no viable alternative NLE with comparable trimming power. Pr CS6 is the first.
[Chris Kenny] “The idea that most edits are made during live playback — and apparently Apple is as ignorant as I am about this fact — is a little implausible.”
I never said such a thing. We’re talking about trimming – the fine, detail work – and trim tools.
Why do high-end colorists use control surfaces? Are you saying they’d be just as efficient if they were limited to working with a mouse and onscreen UI?
JKL dynamic trimming turns the keyboard into a control surface for trimming. It enables editors to manipulate and judge pacing and feel, on-the-fly in real time. The benefits are major and real.
BTW, I don’t think Apple is ignorant, but I do think they have their own agenda and that agenda has everything to do with Apple, not industry standards or the needs of top-tier users.
[Chris Kenny] “You’re also pushing this feature as a critical advantage when classic FCP — which captured more than 50% of the ‘pro’ market, as measured by SCRI’s survey — never really had this either. Trimming in FCP X is pretty unambiguously better than it was in FCP 7.”
Actually, FCP Legacy does have dynamic, keyboard trimming. I used the software for years before I discovered it. When in trim mode, pretty much everything is keyboard controllable. The problem is it switches to a modal window rather than operating on the timeline itself. And you sometimes do have to grab the mouse. But the basics are definitely there. Is it as good as Avid? No. It’s not really as flexible. But I’ve demoed it plenty of times to Avid editors who were surprised it was even possible.
It’s like subframe audio editing. A lot of folks around here claimed you couldn’t do that in Legacy either. You can. Sometimes it pays to RTFM. I agree FCPX has some nice trimming features. I disagree it’s unambiguously better than Legacy.
[Chris Kenny] “Plus, the demo video of Premiere that started this subthread does not actually appear to show the Avid behavior you’re describing.”
It’s not in that particular demo, but it’s entirely possible.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “It’s like subframe audio editing. A lot of folks around here claimed you couldn’t do that in Legacy either. You can. Sometimes it pays to RTFM. I agree FCPX has some nice trimming features. I disagree it’s unambiguously better than Legacy.”
FWIW, in addition to keyframing, you can also slip audio tracks by subframes in FCP 7. However, you do need to go to the viewer to do it. The great thing about X s you can do it in the timeline, which is really nice. In this instance X really is unambiguously better than Legacy. Also FWIW, I rarely use the mouse to trim in X. Well, other than key framing and dragging fade handles… things like that. Also, contrary to popular belief, you can select, and trim edits on multiple (connected) clips at once if the cuts are on the same frame….
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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[Charlie Austin] “I am, and I found David’s comments to be highly subjective at best, but mostly incredibly condescending. There are generations of “the best… advanced” film editors who would probably disagree.”
No condescension intended. We agree they’re just tools. It’s great we all have more choices and I respect everyone’s choice. I just find it amusing when the folks who freely admit they don’t know what they don’t know chime in as the voice of authority around here. It’s fun pushing back. Feel free to disagree anytime. It’s all good.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
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