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An NLE change from FCP poll results
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Plus, I seem to experience editors that don’t need the speed do not muck with keyboard shortcuts, it is all mouse all the time and all menus all the time.
Editors that need to be fast use the shortcuts.
It has nothing to do with ability.
“I see people work this way too, whatever works for you in the long run. Using the key commands makes editing alot more fun for me, and makes me feel like im in control and not simply just clicking about on a computer screen.
If i was on the client side, and saw someone mousing and using menus all day, id probably look elsewhere on the next project to save time and money.
Can you trim more than edit point at once in FCP X? i didnt come across that in the ripple training?
Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production – NBC/Universal
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[Chris Kenny] “[Shawn Miller] “So… are you calling me a liar then? Not sure what this comment is about.”
I think you’re advocating a particular position.”
By sharing my experiences of installing the Creative Suite on multiple machines? What on Earth would I have to gain from lying about that?
[Chris Kenny] “[Shawn Miller] “However, if you’re talking about FCPX in relation to the Creative Suite, then you’re making a case for the Creative Suite. ”
Only if you think Jobs was making a case for traditional PCs.”
I’m just pointing out that you made a good use case for the Creative Suite (see below).
[Chris Kenny] “…because higher end video workflows often involve the use of multiple tools, so you don’t necessarily need a ‘heavy’ tool that does everything.”
[Chris Kenny] “[Shawn Miller] “For the aspiring artist who wants to explore motion graphics, VFX and editing, can FCPX match the same capability/value as the Creative Cloud subscription? ”
The question is stacking the deck.”
So the answer is no then. Although, your answer really should have been something like “The combination of FCPX and the Creative Cloud subscription can provide a powerful set of tools that aspiring and seasoned professionals can benefit from equally.” or something like that.
Just so you understand, Chris. I’m not an advocate or a surrogate for Adobe, Microsoft, Maxon, Next Limit or anyone. I use excellent tools made by these companies, but I’m not a partisan. I think Apple makes fantastic products, and FCPX most likely has a bright future ahead of it.
Thanks,
Shawn
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[Chris Kenny] “The idea that most edits are made during live playback — and apparently Apple is as ignorant as I am about this fact — is a little implausible.”
That is precisely how I edit whenever possible and how most others I know edit. It was the thing I missed most about Avid when working with FCP 7. Dynamic trimming saves a great deal of time and keystrokes. As to Apple being ignorant…
Tim
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[Neil Goodman] “Can you trim more than edit point at once in FCP X? i didnt come across that in the ripple training?”
You cannot.
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[Chris Kenny] “FCP is still, according to the SCRI survey over 50% of the NLE market, despite being Mac-only. And most of the Avid deployments I come into contact with are Mac-based as well. It doesn’t seem that implausible that the Mac is 75% or more of the video editing market.”
Chris,
As you’ve insisted (more than once) on this “report” of “data” I’ll provide the necessary references – this has been covered here before, as you well know – I’m surprised to see you treating these guesses as if they are real numbers.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/32115I’m amazed how people will just repeat numbers as if they are data, regardless of their meaning or value.
Some highlights:
– The 54% figure you’re quoting is FCP7 + FCPX.
– The comparison of “more FCPX seats” included free trials and was to FCP7 seats – significantly not including upgrades (surely the lion’s share of FCP installs)
– The sample size is unknown – either 1874 or 2500 depending on which quote you want to pull, but that’s the total for 6 different market segments of post (it’s unknown if all segments report purchases of NLEs.)
– They extrapolate from their samples to represent “the market”, but …
– Their statistical methods are unstated and unknown.
– These fuzzy guesses are almost a year old.If this is the source of your claim that they have “more seats of X installed than FCP” then you’re reading the “data” incorrectly. If you have another source, please publish.
If you’re just looking for pretend numbers to use – then use Tim’s 10 million. It sounds more impressive.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/36504Who is SCRI? I did a bit of a search (one name rounded back to the Cow, can’t remember which) – are they a good source? I know they solicit participation in their surveys with iPad giveaways, …
What are the FCPX numbers? Apple isn’t telling. No one knows.
But really, I thought it was all about good tools for good work? Who cares how many are using it?
Franz.
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[Chris Kenny] “It doesn’t seem that implausible that the Mac is 75% or more of the video editing market.”
I’m with Franz on this one. The study is completely suspect. To say Mac is 75% of the video editing markets is completely implausible. The cross-platform suppliers (Avid, Adobe) generally admit to a 50/50 split between Mac and PC. Most broadcast installation (TV stations and networks) that are involved in news operations are almost always PC. Then factor in the the number (individuals and broadcasters) running Lightworks, Edius, Vegas, Quantel, Mistika and a few others. Or Smoke on Linux. Also think internationally, where Macs aren’t necessary as strong as in LA or NYC.
I teach an annual editing class for a film program. The majority of students (some years all) come with PC and not Mac knowledge.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Franz Bieberkopf] “- The 54% figure you’re quoting is FCP7 + FCPX.”
Yes, I know.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “The comparison of “more FCPX seats” included free trials and was to FCP7 seats – significantly not including upgrades (surely the lion’s share of FCP installs)”
This comes from an Apple briefing; it’s not clear it’s from SCRI. Apple would presumably have independent methods of determining something like this. Where are you getting the information that it includes free trials and doesn’t include upgrades?
FCP X is regularly the highest grossing app on the Mac App Store (excluding Mountain Lion, since, you know, it’s not technically an app), which suggests it’s probably doing reasonably well.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “- The sample size is unknown – either 1874 or 2500 depending on which quote you want to pull, but that’s the total for 6 different market segments of post (it’s unknown if all segments report purchases of NLEs.)
– They extrapolate from their samples to represent “the market”, but …
– Their statistical methods are unstated and unknown.”These are essentially generic objections that anyone could raise about essentially any survey data made available to the public. SCRI is pretty much the standard source for survey data in this industry. Apple, for one, has been citing their data for many years — I don’t think this is a situation in which there are lots of surveys out there and Apple cherry-picked the one that happened to show what they wanted.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “- These fuzzy guesses are almost a year old.”
This is the main limitation — but, of course, it cuts both ways. On the one hand, there has been more time for those who planned to move away from FCP to do so. On the other hand, FCP X’s feature set has been quite substantially expanded over the last year, making it a much more plausible option for many folks.
I do wish we had more data. But in the absence of anything better, this is a hell of a lot more compelling than “I don’t like FCP X and here are some people on the Internet who agree with me”, which is practically a standard argument around here.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Oliver Peters] “The cross-platform suppliers (Avid, Adobe) generally admit to a 50/50 split between Mac and PC.”
Err… you do realize that if FCP is (or at least was) half of the NLE market, and if Avid and Premiere are 50/50 Mac/Windows, that’s 75% Mac right there, yes?
Also, I believe Adobe’s Mac/PC revenue is about 50/50. Adobe makes products other than Creative Suite. The Mac’s heavy use by creatives probably means Creative Suite is more Mac-oriented than the average Adobe product (like, say, their corporate document management tools). In other words, if it’s 50/50 overall, it’s almost certainly the case that more than 50% of Creative Suite sales are Mac-based. Adobe doesn’t regularly release such numbers, but here’s a 2007 source saying Creative Suite sales were 75% Mac — I see little reason to believe the Mac has substantially lost share in the general creative market since then.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Chris Kenny] “This comes from an Apple briefing; it’s not clear it’s from SCRI. Apple would presumably have independent methods of determining something like this. Where are you getting the information that it includes free trials and doesn’t include upgrades?”
Chris,
What’s your source?
If you’re referencing the Phillip Hodgetts / Larry Jordan discussion, then you should spend some time reading their blogs (and comments, including those from Craig Seeman) as well as the discussions here after.
But if I recall it was some Apple spokesperson, in a Las Vegas hotel room “pointing to” SCRI figures. So it wasn’t a claim from Apple.
It’s a good marketing strategy – because if you can get some “sciencey” sounding numbers in there, people will repeat them …
Franz.
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[Chris Kenny] “Err… you do realize that if FCP is (or at least was) half of the NLE market, and if Avid and Premiere are 50/50 Mac/Windows, that’s 75% Mac right there, yes?”
No, you missed the point. Computer sales in the video world are roughly 50/50. So all Mac sales are no more than 50%. Some of those Macs are running ONLY Avid and some are running ONLY Premiere Pro. Naturally there’s overlap with people running multiple applications. Quite a few Avid editors also have FCP installed on their Macs. A lot of editors work on a PC at work, but own a personal laptop that’s a Mac. It’s two units that are sold, but only 1 editor and 1 system used at any given time. How do you tally that? You simply can’t add up the percentages the way you are doing. The picture isn’t all that clear. Many companies have PCs for editing and Macs in their graphics departments.
[Chris Kenny] “The Mac’s heavy use by creatives probably means Creative Suite is more Mac-oriented than the average Adobe product (like, say, their corporate document management tools).”
Based on what info? There are plenty of corporate, print and web users of CS that are only on PC. A quote from 2007 is ancient by this point in time.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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