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An NLE change from FCP poll results
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Hi all, longtime lurker/first time poster here.
I think David is right. I edit primarily on Avid, but I like to keep an eye on developments in the other camps. And Premiere’s new trim tools have definitely made me sit up and take notice.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that the problems that the magnetic timeline is designed to solve hardly even exist in other NLE:s. Clip collisions, for instance, are almost never a problem on Avid or other NLE:s built around solid trim tools. Once you get used to setting up trims across multiple tracks (and in multiple directions), you can do in one operation what used to take several steps in FCP Legacy. There’s no need to “open up space” or play “track tetris” – tracks ripple at the exact points I want them to, making space and/or extending clips wherever needed. And it’s all real time, which means I can make my edit decisions while looking at the video monitor, and not the little rectangles in the timeline.
The poor trim tools are the number one reason I always disliked editing in Legacy, and while the magnetic timeline has some clever solutions to some of Legacy’s shortcomings, I still prefer the control, precision and feedback that well implemented trimming offers. Sure, Apple’s drag-and-drop style editing is very approachable even to new users. Advanced trimming techniques less so. But if you spend all day, every day in front of the machine, that should be of little consequence.
If you’re interested in a more “trim centric” style of editing check out Lightworks, arguably the king of trimming.
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[David Lawrence] “On a complex timeline like Charlie’s example, I’m not sure how much you really gain in FCPX. Instead of playing Tetris, you have to think about clip connection points. You may have to unscramble the vertical stacking of connected clips and/or re-trim audio. You still have to think about whether anything’s messed up downstream outside the window view. It’s still work. I prefer doing the set-up work first, knowing I’m making every decision, rather than figuring out what the timeline just did to my edit and fixing it afterwards.
True, but not to the extent you lay out above. You need to check the connections to the clip on either side of the edit you’re about to make, maybe some post edit fine trimming, but that’s about it. Not saying it’s *no* work, but you can do the setup work first and anything outside your view will be just fine. I mean, It’s not uncommon to miss a track trim setting on MC as well, especially with a sequence with lots of tracks. X is just like any other NLE in the sense that, if you know your way around the timeline, everything does just what you want it to. The timeline won’t screw anything up on its own. 🙂
[Jeremy Garchow] “There is no equivalent for this in X either, which is really too bad as the magnetic non-collide rules would really help me out here.”
So in X, clip collisions can still happen when trimming? Yikes!”
Not sure what the reference here is to but no, they can’t.
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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[Jok Daniel] “What a lot of people don’t realize is that the problems that the magnetic timeline is designed to solve hardly even exist in other NLE:s. Clip collisions, for instance, are almost never a problem on Avid or other NLE:s built around solid trim tools. Once you get used to setting up trims across multiple tracks (and in multiple directions), you can do in one operation what used to take several steps in FCP Legacy. There’s no need to “open up space” or play “track tetris” – tracks ripple at the exact points I want them to, making space and/or extending clips wherever needed. And it’s all real time, which means I can make my edit decisions while looking at the video monitor, and not the little rectangles in the timeline.”
I may be splitting hairs here, but clip collisions do exist on other NLE’s, and the trim tools that have eveloved over the years are the workaround to prevent them. X solves it differently, that’s all. The implementation isn’t perfect, but what solution is? your entire description above mostly describes FCP X as well. Just replace “setting up trims” with “checking your connections”
If you prefer the Avid style tools, that’s cool. I’m not trying to say that X is the best thing ever, just that it can work with complicated edits quite well. I spend all day every day in front of the machine too, and to me, the more the machine can do for me, the better. That’s the whole reason for NLE’s at all right? Otherwise we’d all be sitting at flatbeds cutting film and and scraping mag. 😉
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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I wonder if the little Apple moment inside the video was specifically chosen for the piece.
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[David Lawrence] “Wait, you do your trimming in FCP7 in the viewer? Really? I’m surprised. I’m sure you know the other ways. Why not on the timeline like you’re doing now in X?”
It depends. If I am adjusting frames, I do it in the timeline, but if I need more than a coule of frame adjustments and need to watch a clip beyond the out point, loading in the viewer works.
I don’t do all my trimming in the viewer.
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[David Lawrence] “I never trim in the viewer. I sometimes use it to set up IO points before adding a clip to the timeline, but I’m more likely to just drop a clip onto the timeline and set IO there. Most often, I use viewer to manipulate effects or motion settings, or do super-precise subframe audio key framing. I think the viewer kinda sucks for trimming so I trim directly in the timeline or in trim mode when I need to tweak critical pacing. If you’re doing most of your trimming in the viewer, I understand why you might be underwhelmed by the Legacy’s trim tools.”
Did you understand what I was saying in that post? Maybe I didn’t explain clearly enough.
[David Lawrence] “So in X, clip collisions can still happen when trimming? Yikes!”
No. That’s not what I was saying. I’d have to show you what I meant for trimming in the viewer. It’s a direct relationship to the timeline.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Did you understand what I was saying in that post? Maybe I didn’t explain clearly enough.”
Maybe not.
[Jeremy Garchow] “In FCP7, I’d double click the clip to load it in the viewer from the timeline (so that the clip has the little sprocket marks), play, and then hit out and the clip in the timeline would have the adjusted out (or in).”
To me this reads like you normally trim in the viewer. Am I missing something?
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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[David Lawrence] “To me this reads like you normally trim in the viewer. Am I missing something?
“We were talking about cutting by feel and how dynamic trimming may play a role in that.
In 7, there’s a clip already in the timeline. I want to adjust the out point by more than a few frames.
I load the clip from the timeline, watch the clip, hit out. That clip in the timeline is now longer.
I don’t do this for frames, I do this for larger adjustments.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “We were talking about cutting by feel and how dynamic trimming may play a role in that.
In 7, there’s a clip already in the timeline. I want to adjust the out point by more than a few frames.
I load the clip from the timeline, watch the clip, hit out. That clip in the timeline is now longer.
I don’t do this for frames, I do this for larger adjustments.”
I understand but I’m still not following. It seems like more work and less context. What does this buy you that’s better than trimming directly in the timeline or in trim mode?
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “I understand but I’m still not following. It seems like more work and less context. What does this buy you that’s better than trimming directly in the timeline or in trim mode?”
Because I can’t play a clip beyond the outpoint in the timeline.
Loading in to the viewer from the timeline is trimming in the timeline, essentially, just one clip at a time.
I do trim on the timeline as well.
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