Tony Silanskas
Forum Replies Created
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[Simon Ubsdell] “I can’t help agreeing with you but there is a reasonably well-substantiated claim going around that FCPX shares none of the original code of iMovie. See for example this excellent article:”
Thanks for the link. Good read. Maybe the code for iMovie needed to be written for the new Lion OS so they started with FCP X. =)
tony
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[Simon Ubsdell] “I wanted to ask you how you were dealing with making duplicates of your Compound Clips and how you were then organizing them.”
First off, thanks Simon for continuing the discussion with me and glad I’m not the only one a little confused with the Events and Projects in a pro setting.
As for the duplicate Compound Clips, I actually just do the same thing I always did with FCP 7 sequences: just highlight the Compound Clip in the Event and press Command + D to duplicate it. Then I rename it something like “Commercial edit 02”. Plus, it copies all the keywords from the original clip so you don’t have to re-keyword anything.
And the more and more I try and work with Projects and Events the more I am with you in saying the FCP X team still does not know what the best workflow is for professionals in FCP X so they left all the iMovie stuff in there AND starting adding things like Compound Clips and storylines even though they are redundant in most areas.
I’m also thinking this may be why there is no XML/EDL support yet because they haven’t decided on a final way to create sequences and organize everything.
tony
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Just copy the single clip you want into the new Compound Clip. Then when you export the new Compound Clip it is just exporting the single clip inside it.
tony
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Yah, I do like being able to move clips without opening it. But… it’s just another thing that shows how the FCP X team never fully committed to certain workflows and are still trying to figure out what is the best because why can’t Compound Clips just let us move stuff around in an open fashion? If that is the only reason for secondary storylines, we don’t really need them, do we?
tony
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So I played around with a couple of old larger FCP 7 projects in FCP X today (just the assets of course). They were both from the same client so instead of making two different Events, I just made one, named it after the Client, and then started splitting things up into the two separate projects from inside the Event. I know some have said that we should treat an Event like a Master Client folder, which houses every project’s assets from every project from that client (though not sequences =) in one giant folder, so I’m giving it a shot. I’m also seeing that “One Client per Drive” might become a necessity and not just a preference to keep some sort of sanity until manual location of Event folders is a reality.
As I was organizing some weekend photos in Abode Lightroom, I just keep thinking some sort of “catalog” system in FCP X would go a long way to help with larger projects. Or in the mean time have a way to hide all the other Events and Projects that don’t pertain to the job you’re on.
tony
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You can so good addition but for longer form projects I’d rather compress the audio to have room for higher bitrate video. Also, if you’re doing surround on DVD you would need AC3, too (or an equivalent format).
tony
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Have you check your Final Cut Events folder to see if the media actually copied at all or somehow made it into the trash?
tony
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I’m with Craig. And am taking a shot with a small project next week. Did some personal stuff this weekend to learn and it’s all slowly making sense in a good way. I will say, the organizing of large projects should become much much easier.
tony
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I thought about this too. Sorry if the comments below are a bit long but I’m just trying to wrap my head around all this and could use some help. Here are the options I have so far (some of these are pushing it but I like to think of all options before I choose one):
– You could make a FCP X Project just for this reason and copy your Compound Clip into it and then share the Project folder, but that would defeat the purpose of not using Projects in the first place. Also, to reduce the Project size you could not copy the Render Files folder.
– You could copy the Events Folder from one machine to the other and you’d be set. One folder to copy, instead of two (if you copied your Event and Project folders) but unless you are referencing clips in your Event, that file would be huge. And haven’t had a chance to test it when the media it references is on a different drive than the first computer. Since you can’t manually reconnect clips are you out of luck?
– You could create a new Event and copy the Compound Clip into it and just share that new Event. Now, when you do this the only option I have found is to actually copy ALL the original media referenced in that Compound Clip whether you chose to just have FCP X reference your original media to begin with (not copy the original files into the Original Media folder of the Event folder but leave them in a separate location) or not. There is no way to just move the Compound Clip into a new Event and just reference the original Event it came from. If someone has figured this out let me know. I know you can create a new Compound Clip in the new Event and copy and paste of the contents of the original Compound Clip but that is too many steps for something so simple. You can however delete those duplicate files when they finish copying over since you can tell FCP X to just reference the original Event once you open up FCP X again. This logic baffles me and could have easily been remedied with a simple option to reference media when I initially copied the Compound Clip into the new event. Point being, something this simple shouldn’t work one way and not another. One plus… this seems like an easy way to consolidate a Compound Clip (AKA: Sequence, AKA: Mini FCP X Project) for backup.
So it seems that using Projects is the easiest way to share but I’m curious how well the files reconnect on different systems. But I still think Projects are redundant as they are implemented now and could easily be merged into Events since they are practically there already with Compound Clips.
This is where I can definitely tell the FCP X team could not and did not settle on a unified interface. There are some great ideas in here… they just need to decide which route to take cause right now there isn’t a clear one (just read the manual and you’ll see even they have a hard time explaining some things).
Once people start testing this in a multi-system environment, we’ll start to find the best way to do this. The sharing projects easily is a big question right now. Since there is no way, yet, that we can manually reconnect clips, does that mean every system has to have the correct Events folder, up to date, in order to open a Project? Example: Editor 02 works on a Project and adds a graphic that Editor 01 doesn’t have yet. Editor 02 gives Editor 01 their Project. Editor 01 opens the Project and tells it to reference his Event. Since Editor 01 does not yet have the new graphic it is offline. Editor 01 then adds the new graphic to his Event. What Happens now? Does the graphic automatically reconnect cause it’s the same name and size or does Editor 01 have to MANUALLY insert the graphic into the project every place it was used. If we could manually reconnect clips this would be a moot point. Haven’t tested this scenario yet.
Here are some related issues I’ve run into when testing all this:
– You can not just copy an Event, change it’s name, and now have two different Events. FCP X will only open one since I guess it sees it as a duplicate Event (which it is). It also seems to “prefer” the Events on your MAC HD which means it will chose that one over one on an external and there doesn’t seem to be a way to stop it from doing this.
– Once an Event or Project looses its connection to the media there is no way to manually fix it. It’s either find the original Event drive or go hit your head against a wall ’til you pass out.
Why do I see this discussion important… because I don’t need unnecessary redundancy in a pro app and need a decent starting workflow for a multi-system environment. Here is where I stand on Projects and Compound Clips (AKA: Mini Projects):
Compound Clips:
Pros
– Live in an Event so only one Main folder to deal with
– Can easily search and organize them thanks to Keywords
– Act just like a Project except for the two consCons
– Not easy to share
– Can’t duplicate an Event Folder and rename it to make a copy like you can with ProjectsFCP X Projects
Pros
– Relatively easy to share
– Don’t need Event to open so you can see past ProjectsCons
– Separate folder from Events
– Every Project is only one timeline (FCP 7 Sequence) therefore you easily have the potential for thousands of these guys pretty fast in a mulit-system workflow.
– Every Project that has ever been created on the drive where the Final Cut Projects folder lives is right there, easily adding clutter if the other Editors didn’t organize them well with folders.
– Can’t globally search them all (which seems like a huge over-site to me with all the great organization Events have now). If someone knows how to search Projects let me know
– Can’t use the new Keywords feature with them though you can add Notes to themI know much of those cons have been discussed on various threads but putting them here for easy reference to my thoughts.
And with all these great new ways to organize, I do not like the fact that you can just grab an asset from the Finder and drop it into any timeline without some sort of dialog box coming up saying, “Hey there buddy… You’ve done such a great job organizing so where do ya want to store this (copy the file or reference it) and what Keywords do you want to add to this?” Right now it acts just like FCP 7… no dialog box. So you have to search for the most recent footage and do it then, which as we know, most people won’t, therefore that clip will never be easily searchable.
Once again, sorry for the long post but this info is important to my potential workflow. And I want to be clear that I am not mad in the slightest, just frustrated as I try and work stuff out, as I really believe the potential for an “amazing” new NLE is buried deep somewhere in this crevasse called FCP X
Right now, to have some sort of organization, I will create a folder with the EXACT same name as the Event for which it pertains to (or mostly pertains to if I reference more than one Event) and just make folders in there to organize the Projects (Sequences).
I’m starting to see for me that the problem with Events for pros, the way they are set-up now, is that they were made with only RAW FOOTAGE in mind (just like in iMovie), meaning these issues arise because Graphics, Music, Sequences etc. (anything besides RAW FOOTAGE) don’t easily (logically) fit into this system when the Projects (Sequences) are separated from them.
Still trying to find someone explain to me why having to worry about TWO master folders for each Job (Event and Projects) is the best route. Maybe it is and I’m just blind to it right now.
tony