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64x realtime with p2’s 640Mbps?
What stream is 10Mbps?

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And SDI?
Another mistake?

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If offloading(+swapping) is less than realtime, you run out of cards eventually anyway,
no matter how many cards you have.

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Just one last time for this subject:

[Luis Caffesse] “The codec does matter, each codec has it’s own specification for how it is written to tape.”

Nope, tape recording standard and codec are different things.
Codec defines how video data is handled (compression, etc.) to a datastream.
Tape format defines how datastream is recorded in tape.
Just like you can have video with dvcpro codec in hdd and it has nothing to do with tape.

[Luis Caffesse] “You could manufacture all the tape transports you want, but the price will only go down to a certain point.”

And you seem to suggest that video tape mechanism can’t get cheaper than they are.
Like the lowest point is somehow reached.
How do you explain that data tape mechanisms have developed in a few years to have ten times faster and cheaper?
Because there is enough competition in that area.
So back to the analogy with ccd chips and tape drives:
Hd ccd’s are now ten times cheaper than five years ago, because there is competition in that area,
and so there is development.
Video tape drives haven’t had enough competition and that’s why price hasn’t dropped.
This speculation about possible video tape drive development is of course purely speculation,
because it never happend. I think now time has gone past it. Disk based recording is today and
solid state maybe tomorrow.

One reason for this is that this “prosumer” phenomena is still a quite new and small thing.
Manufacturers have long been making products for two targets that are as far from each other as they can be: consumers and broadcasters.
Other reason is that formats and standards in AV tech has been traditionally designed to be constant for at least for decade. This is because small volumes (to make r&d affordable) and because everything has been “hardwired” hardware that you can’t upgrade easily.

Situation is totally changing now when ICT tech and AV tech is converging.
ICT tech development has long been reaying to 3 things:
1)mass volume: everybody’s using (more and more) same tech from supercomputers to child’s home computer
2)software based: products can be upgraded easily
3)modularity: combination of 1 & 2

Hdd’s are cheap, because millions of them are sold every year, dvcpro drives are not.
Ccd/cmos chips are getting cheap, because millions of them are sold in digital still cameras.
Cf and sd are cheap, p2 is not.
I believe that in very near future there will also be manufacturers that start to make Hd cameras out
of cheap standard bulk parts, not making new proprietary formats, and that will explode markets.

What if somebody had started making cameras based on DLT tape format year ago?
Or if all manufacturers would use it now?
Newest SDLT tape has a capasity of 300GB and transfer rate of 36MBps (=288 Mbps).
So you could record 1080p24 dvcproHD for 400 mins to one tape.
Last year specs were half and three years ago 1/4, but they are all downward compatible.
Sure it’s a $50 per tape, but if whole world’s video would be recorded to them it would be just
a fraction of that and even now it would be less than $10 per hour.
Also cost of a drive is half of what dvcproHD deck, but if the volume would be same as miniDV mechanisms
sold every year, that would also be a fraction of what it is.

[Luis Caffesse] “‘Nuff said about this subject.”
That’s something we can both agree on. “

Sorry, this got out of the hand once again.
Thank you everybody for interesting conversation!

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[Luis Caffesse] “If you compare the prices of $/GB, hard drives are the most cost effective solution”

Hdd: $.5/GB
Dvd: $.1/GB

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[Luis Caffesse] “Again, maybe you’re right about being able to record 100mb/s to DV tape, but there is more to a codec than the datarate (i.e. track pitch, tape speed, etc). Just because you can push 100mb/s through, doesn’t mean you can record a DVCProHD signal.”

If you can record 100Mbps, then you can.
There no magic here and no codecs to record.
Tape does not not with what codec its data will be used.

But you guys seem to totally miss my point.
I took DSR-85 just for an example.
You take for granted that HD camera can cost $6k now, when 5 years ago it was $100k.
And camera can be 5 times smaller.
But somehow you can’t believe that tape mechanism that has costed $20k for the last
5 years can cost only $1k. It’s all about manufacturing volumes of mass market.

Why aren’t you screaming that HD ccd’s cost $20k per set and that’s why it’s totally
impossible that hvx has HD ccd’s?

Ok, I’ve tried to made my point.
If you don’t get it, I give up. ‘Nuff said about this subject.

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Absolutely.
Panny is making bold move by skipping one generation of recoring: disk based.

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What is my mistake here?
When you are reading/writing 25Mbps signal at quadruple speed you are reading/writing 100Mbps.
Are you using QSDI with two of those decks or Sony’s editstation?

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Are you insisting that DSR-85 can’t read/write with 4x speed?
Because it does and that means 100Mbps.
And with miniDVCAM casette.

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Yeah, well I wasn’t precise enough what I meant by “now”.
I meant when hvx is shipping.
Before that we don’t need to change anything in our workflow.