Sean Oneil
Forum Replies Created
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You have a very simplistic view of things. Why does it have to “correspond” when the 6 lines fall well within the overscan area?
The output of the timeline would still be 486. Just that 6 of those lines are black. This is standard practice when converting between the two, as you know (and the makers of FCP6 apparently don’t know). It’s still 259M. Otherwise it wouldn’t even work over SDI.
Again I say, HD should scale to 480 every single time. Whether the sequence and output is 486 or 480. The entire purpose for SD standards switching from 486 to 480 was because 480 is an even multiple of 16. This improves the quality for scaling and compression. DV, DV50, DVD, SD MPEG Broadcast – any SD format to come out in the last 10 years is 480. None of them are 486. There is a reason for it.
Scaling HD to 480 is the best way to do it. And this is how a computer program like Final Cut should handle it.
If name calling and name dropping is your only way of arguing against it, please let someone else do the arguing.
Sean
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You might be disappointed then. Quad G5 MIGHT be ok from what I’ve been hearing. But that is the bare minimum for HD (if it even works).
I have a dual G5. ProRes works with standard def, but barely. Both CPUs climb up to 80% during capture, and about 60% during playback. First time trying to output to tape, I got a dropped frame error. This is standard-def mind you. Not even going to attempt HD.
When I was at NAB, the people there told me I should be fine, my G5 should work no problem, yadda yadda. Total BS.
Sean
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[JeremyG] “Why’s that?”
Just the way scaling works. The simpler the division (or multiplication) the better the results.
Sean
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[JeremyG] “A first time poster alerted the Cow today that there’s a preference in FCP6 about scaling footage to fit the timeline. ‘Yojimbo’ said it was in the User Preferences, Editing tab.”
BTW, yes I did see that. The problem is you want the feature enabled to convert between SD and HD.
Another thing. If you place a 1080 or 720 clip into a 486 timeline, it SHOULD always scale that to 480, not 486. I haven’t tried it but I have a feeling it doesn’t, rather it scales it to 486 which is not good.
Again, it’s really obvious that the people behind this design were totally oblivious to the quirks regarding the proper way to perform certain video conversions.
Sean
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[JeremyG] “As far as FCP not adding 3:2, the pattern you describe is adding 2:2:2:4 which is what FCP used to do for 23.98 dv footage if your computer wasn’t fast enough to add 3:2. Perhaps there’s a setting/preference for this somewhere? I have not done the upgrade yet, obviously.”
I hope you are right, but I looked and couldn’t find anything. Even if it is there (I’m fairly certain it isn’t) the default should be 3:2:2:3, without question.
Sean
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[gary adcock] “if your outputting SDi, then is this not a card issue?
No, not at all. This is Final Cut issue. No question about it. A Kona/Decklink is only capable of outputting one format. It would have no way of knowing that some of the clips need 3:2 pulldown, and some are native 29.97. Despite all that, you’re not supposed to be limited to outputting through a card. What if I want to export a Quicktime for use on another NLE or DVD authoring?
Final Cut 6 advertises mixing supported formats as a new feature, even mixed framerates. This means it’s supposed to work properly no matter what. And the ONLY proper way to convert 23.98 footage into 29.97 is to add 3:2 pulldown. Its as simple as that. Whether you are outputting SDI or not, it should be there. Or at least the option to add it.
Gramme Nattress provides the “Add Pulldown” filter. With all due respect to him, it’s destructive and a complete workflow nightmare. You have to conform the media to 30p first using Cinema Tools. Then re-import it and add the filter. No knock on him, I’m sure it’s the best thing that can be achieved using FXscript.
Even if the Natress filter was easy to use, we shouldn’t need it. FCP6 is supposed to be a proper format converter now that you can officially mix formats. That is the foundation of how it can work. Yet it can’t properly convert 24p (HD or SD) to 60i NTSC or 1080 – probably some of the most common forms of conversion people would use. So it’s obviously a major problem.
The real poison pill here is that it still LOOKS good to the naked eye. That is why it slipped by, and why people are likely to not even notice it or care about it. But looks are deceiving – I assure you this is a serious problem, and this is yet another example of why Final Cut often gets shrugged off as not being “Pro” enough.
[gary adcock] “unless you choose to input the pulldown at 2:3:3:2 for removal later, both are possible with a kona card by setting the preference in the control panel.”
You will never find a broadcast tape with 2:3:3:2. That’s just a goofy prosumer form of pulldown used by certain DV equipment. Let’s not get off topic.
Sean
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Regarding the lack of pulldown issue, for those that don’t quite understand it, this is the best way I can explain it:
Each pair of numbers represents two fields within a frame. The number itself represents the original frame of the 24p source footage.
This is how normal, proper 3:2 pulldown looks:
11 22 23 34 45 55
And this is the hair-brained method Final Cut uses:
11 22 33 44 44 55
As you can see, with the proper method frames 2 and 5 remain visible for only 50% longer than they’re supposed to. But with the whacked FCP method, frame 4 remains visible twice as long as its supposed to. This is not good.
Furthermore, I’m not sure there’s a way to reverse it. If I were to master a Digibeta using this method, I don’t think someone else could could capture it using reverse telecine. Not to mention all the consumer products that do reverse telecine, like high-end progressive-scan and upconverting DVD players with built-in film detection. That’s really not good. What the **** were they thinking?
Sean
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Bret,
Rich is right. It appears to just center it, but it does indeed offset it by one line. Final Cut 4 even did this too by adding a “shift fields” filter.
Even if it did just center it, that would still be better than what FCP6 does. Apparently it SCALES it – which is just absolutely ridiculous.
Sean
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What the hell? I just noticed that all the ProRes Easy Setups, including HD, are all 8-bit. Surely that can’t be right.
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I just did some reading in the documentation. It appears ProRes is a 10-bit codec.
So it appears you guys made a mistake when creating the Easy Setup for NTSC.