Ron Shook
Forum Replies Created
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Matt,
[Matt Devino] “we’ve posted a bunch of footage”
Nicely done mini shootout. I surely appreciated it. The sharpness, low light capabilities and noise levels show a dramatic story. Panasonic can bob and weave all they like, but anyone who sees this comparison wouldn’t consider the two camcorders in the same breath. When you factor in how far you can push in low light without getting too objectionable noise, there must be 3 or 4 stops difference and the HVX is generally considered to be a little better than any HDV camcorder in lower light. Remarkable!
Ron Shook
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Mark,
[Mark Adams] “I have the EX-1 but I don’t have any way to view the signal. No SDI in to my computer and my 20″ HD production crt only has component in.”
I understand, but there are others out there who can do it. I went looking for an answer elsewhere and found others claiming gorgeous output from the HDSDI, but nothing specific about what it is. John may just have different sensibilities or he may have a problem. I’d like to know for sure.
[Mark Adams] “Does anyone know if I could go SDI to HDMI? I could view that on my 37″ HD LCD.”
Convergent Design make such a device but it ain’t cheap at $325 MSRP:
https://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_nanoView.htm
Perhaps someone knows of other possibilities.
Ron Shook
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John,
[john conner] “Yes I have tried it with and without cards. I believe the MPEG compression and decompression is always running, and going out the SDI”
Since you’ve tried the HDSDI with and without cards in the EX1 without satisfaction that squirrels my supposition that perhaps the HDSDI out was different depending on whether it was simultaneously recording to cards or just presenting an EE signal.
I would think that others on this forum would be feverishly testing the HDSDI output of their EX1’s to find out whether the signal is truly 4:2:2 uncompressed off the camera head or decompressed from the MPEG2 stream, but so far that’s not the case. I’m left to wonder whether your experience is universal, or if you have a bum EX1, or if Sony has intentionally down engineered the HDSDI output? I hope we find out pretty darned soon.
Good Luck to you,
Ron Shook
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David,
[David Jones] “As a freelancer, I’d like to make a decision about what way to go, and I can’t afford to get one of everything. I’m sure eventually the choice will be clear,”
I’m pretty sure that the choice will never again be clear when it comes to big camcorders in the $30-70k range and that the only reliable way to deal with this for the forseeable future is to rent.
That’s why as a freelance, owner operator, who’s still getting more than I ever thought possible work out of my BetaSP rig, I’m looking very hard at the EX1 as my next purchase. It probably offers HD thats significantly better than 1/3″ HDV, quite close to 2/3″ HD, yet in a form factor that’s small and light enough to do big camcorder camera support for much less $$$.
In other words, for that same $30k for a minimal big camcorder, I can have the EX1, Flash XDR, lots of solid state cards, hot laptop for on site editing, backup and/or delivery of files to clients on pocket drives, steadicam type rig, jib rig, sufficient batteries, a 35mm device and lenses, and a rig to turn it into a pretty much shoulder-mount camcorder. If what it can do doesn’t suit the client, I can rent, but if it does, I will be able to deliver awfully darned good HD at BetaSP production rates, and far less than that for spiffy productions involving steadicam and/or Jib. A steadicam and wheel chair gets you quite good dollying in many locations with even about 30″ of jibbing. The size and “quite good enough” HD quality of the EX1 opens up many production possibilities, that are often too expensive with a full size and weight camcorder.
SD?, still got the BetaSP and I’ll change occupations before descending to $300/day DV.
Thems my thoughts anyhow.
Ron Shook
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Randy, Mark, John, Craig,
[randy Strome] “You may all have seen this, but Juan from Sony sounded in on this here:”
I’ve been watching this debate with great interest. Juan from Sony seems pretty much unequivocal here:
[Juan Martinez] “Yes, it is possible to capture recorded data via the HDSDI. IN case of 24P recordings please note that the Ex1 always adds 3-2 pulldown when outputting 24p footage via the HDSDI. This is to allow monitoring with a wide array of displays. The NLE can remove 3-2 and extract the 24P cadence as the A frames always fall on the 0 and 5 frame. You can also capture EE (live video) via HDSDI. Please note that the EE signal is full HD resolution 1920×1080 or 1280×720 4:2:2, 10-bit.”
Note that he makes a distinction here between monitoring recording via HDSDI and capturing the EE signal via HDSDI. Could it be that the camcorder handles things differently through the HDSDI spigot depending on whether the EX1 is in record mode to SxS, or is just spitting out HDSDI EE when not in record mode? If so, could it be that John has run all his direct capture to NLE tests while simultaneously recording to SxS with the probably less than optimum upconverted of the EX1 MPEG2 to HDSDI? There is some logic to Sony setting things up this way in that monitoring on location with small monitors needn’t be the best nor should we expect the camcorder cross converting to HDSDI from MPEG2 with 3-2 pull down to be top notch on such a small, relatively inexpensive device.
Should I get the EX1, I might very well want it this way some of the time, however, I can easily imagine other instances where I would want to be recording to SxS for backup while simultaneously capturing via HDSDI to an NLE or some other HDSDI device calling for the full HDSDI Magilla off the camera head. Could there be a menu setting for this in the EX1, and if not, could we get one in a firmware update?
Unlike Mark, who doesn’t anticipate using HDSDI output, I definitely do, because I am looking forward to the Convergent Design Flash XDR:
https://www.convergent-design.com/” TARGET=_blank>https://www.convergent-design.com/
This device would allow for better than XDCamHD, HDCam, Varicam, probably better than AVC Intra recording of the EX1 off the camera head and while doing so, I’d want SxS for backup.
To work with Flash XDR, the HDSDI spigot would need to interleave audio and timecode, so that leads to my question of immediate importance. Does the EX1 HDSDI spigot interleave audio and timecode with the video in all instances? If not, then Flash XDR would be almost useless with the EX1, and I keep looking.
I hope I’m not totally all wet with this post.
Ron Shook
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Mark,
[Mark Palmos] “nice rant steve!
im sure ron shook will be intested to read it too…”I sure was and would sure welcome more from any and all, plus the abverse, i.e., what you are particularly digging.
I’ll use this opportunity to also thank Joe Incardona for his test shots of both EX1 and HPX3000. You can’t really tell a lot in comparison because of the less than desireable DVCProHD codec on the 3000. In comparison the EX1 on these shots, except for perhaps a little less competent highlight handling, looks better. I wouldn’t expect it to when the AVC intra 100 codec is used in the Pany, but the differences are gonna be very subtle, I suspect.
I’m starting to think that anyone who purchases anything other than this camcorder in the $5-50k range is going to need to have a very good reason other than picture quality for doing so.
Ron Shook
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Danny,
[Danny Grizzle] “Good match or no?”
I’ve looked into that myself and am thinking that you’d be pushing the envelope too much once you add mic(s) and whatever. I think the Pilot which uses the same vest and arm with a light sled would be a better fit, plus it’d be usefull with other slightly heavier camcorders like the JVCs.
Ron Shook
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Don,
Thanks for this test. It was quite illuminating and quite frankly, to me, amazing. This is quite a leap in HD low light performance, which I just didn’t expect.
[Don Greening] “The frame grabs show that the EX1 beats the PD170 slightly in all stages of the low light test but that the EX1 generates more picture noise at plus 18 gain than the PD170 does.”
The picture noise in the PD170 is masked by softening probably by lower detail enhancement. If you’re able to, lower the detail enhancement on the EX1 and check the noise level again.
The book shelves also show us the barrel distortion at full wide, but… surprisingly, it’s slightly less than the PD170 even though the EX1 lens seems about 10-15% wider than the PD170 lens. Looks like there’ll be less need for a supplementary wide angle adapter with the standard lens on the EX. Excellent!
Ron Shook
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Edward,
[jeditdv] “I didn’t “happen” to have the one I gave you 🙂
I had to write it right quick.”
I don’t know how you feel about “Gentleman” and “Sweetheart” going together, but you are both!!!
Ron Shook
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Craig,
[Craig Seeman] “Talk about dribbling in.”
In quantity a month before Sony annouces the shoulder mount version, made in China, with an MP6 wrapped AVC codec, available just before NAB for $2995. (g)
Lordy, I hope this camcorder operates as advertized and betaed.
Ron Shook