Ron Shook
Forum Replies Created
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Kevin,
[Kevin Jones] “Doing some experimenting with the new EX-1.
Trying to smooth-out the fluttery look of 1080 24p video.
Was suggested I set Speed to 1/48 or 1/50.
No real difference I can see thru the viewfinder.
1080 60i looks very smooth by comparison.”While you (and I for that matter) are getting an education in this thread on shutter speeds and shutter angles, what no one has bothered to point out is that 24p video viewed raw from the camera or in your NLE’s computer display on a 24p project is gonna look ghastly juddery when there’s any kind of motion involved, in relation to what you are used to seeing in the movie house or on TV.
It varies from individual to individual but most folks need close to 30 frames/second for persistence of vision to kick fully in and many individuals start to see individual frames at 24 frames/second. This doesn’t happen in the theater because optical projectors break each individual frame into 2 or more viewings with multi-bladed projectors. It doesn’t happen in the electronic theater or on TV because we are watching 24p, whether SD or HD, that has pull down applied so that we are viewing 24p at either 60 frames or fields/second.
If you want to see how your 24p from the EX or any other camcorder will look as an end product, put the 24p into your NLE and play it back in a 1080i, 720p, or 480i project where the pull down is applied. You’ll see the judder you experienced in the camera, or in a true 24p project which ain’t part of what anyone else will see in the end.
I don’t agree that the best “film look” is obtained at 30p but it’s sure easier and more forgiving to work with and still get some of the “film look.” If you’re really going for a “film look” on a doco or narrative piece, shoot 24p, but realize that the “fluttery look” on subject or camera movement is what you’ll see during production, but not so much at the end of the post process. Of course don’t commit the 24p sins of moving your camera too fast instead of slowly and deliberately. Even those film guys screw up on that from time to time. (g) You can do fast stuff in 24p. It’s the moderate pans and tilts that we get used to shooting with video, that can be gory in 24p.
I hope this makes some sense.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Craig,
[Craig Seeman] “Yes rolling shutter can be seen when a photographer’s flash goes off, when I accidently kick the tripod, do a whip pan for example. Sometimes when tracking a very fast moving object you can even catch it’s effect on background objects. You’ll just have to measure that against its advantages.”
Yeah! Mr. Green’s article is in part a red herring as far as the EX1 is concerned, because a lot of the dreadfull footage was shot with a consumer Canon HV20. There’s a brand new article in HDVideoPro (unfortunately not available on the WEB) about a shoot with 4 cams at a Columbus, OH airshow by a top DP, 2 XDCAM 350s and 2 EX1s. They guy just raves about the EX1, saying the footage from the EX’s is virtually indistinquishable from the 350s and better in lower light. And get this, They did 2 shot series with the EXs, one with the EX mounted behind the cockpit of a stunt plane pulling 10 G’s, and the other out the rear open hatch of a C130 at a flight of old fighters with the EX on a monopod under intense wind buffeting. Both situations involved using the SteadShot function. His word for the footage from both was uniformly “stunning”, with no mention of any shutter artifacts. The EXs were used for other stuff on the ground as well, including a series of trucking shots from a golf cart and in all cases “stunning.”
It seems to me, used properly, any rolling shutter artifacts on the EX1, except still photo flashes, are going to be minimal to non-existent, and as you say, well worth it for the other advantages.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Gary,
[Gary Bain] “All I need to do now is put the unit on the stand so the screen is just below the camera”
This works better if the display is just above the camera lens, not below it. Looking a little up rather than a little down is more attractive with most folk.
Ron Shook
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Ryan,
[ryan early] “Especially if the camera that costs 3 times more is closer to SD than HD in resolution which means I might as well keep shooting with 2/3inch broadcast cams in SD.
I am planning to hire both and do my own test and compare the workflows”
No, the 500 isn’t closer to SD than HD. It’s just not the tackest sharp HD in the world, so if you’re wondering whether you should do the tests and compare, yes, you definitely should. I doubt if you’ll find direct comparison tests between the two cameras.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Mitch,
[Mitch Ives] “the EX-1 has a far superior camera head and lens, but records to a far inferior format…”
A darned fine post of suggestions, be methinks you exaggerate a bit with the 2 “far”s, at least in terms of practical application. (g)
[Mitch Ives] “Comparing the EX-1 to the 500 is even more difficult.”
Ain’t it the truth, particularly since Ryan hasn’t told us what sorts of things he typically shoots.
A few other considerations:
–In run and gun situations the 500 will be just that much quicker with more quick switches as apposed to a few fiddly switches and the menu mess on the EX.
–With time and deliberation, I’m not certain, but expect the EX Image to be certainly sharper, and probably somewhat more paintable than the 500.
–The EX cannot be handycam held for extended periods of time (as in over 5 minutes) with any success, necessitating 3rd party quasi shoulder mount rigs that can increase the time to go to and from tripod or other support options.
–Camcorders of the EX stripe, don’t have the same quality control or ruggedness of a camcorder like the 500.
–No SD recording with the EX. Could be a major problem depending on how you work and who you work for.
–You could purchase 3 EX’s for the cost of a 500 plus lens, or 2 EX’s well outfitted.
–Because of its small size and weight the EX can ride on an under $5k steadycam rig rather than one costing $15-20k. The same goes for jib rigs, i.e. the EX’s much lower starting costs and size makes it possible to turn it into an overall system with more flexibility than the 500 for the same $$$, but sometimes more flexibility equals less speed in specific circumstances.
–With HDSDI output, either camcorder could benefit from a camera mounted Flash XDR drive and record to much better quality than either’s native recording format, but because of it’s better camera head the EX would benefit the most.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Dave,
[Dave Petteruto] “short clip of the capture”
Yeah, that’s time base error caused by the tape expanding or contracting in waves over time. Here’s a tip that might, if not solve, ameliorate the problem. AFIK, all dual (VHS & DVD) DVD recorders have TBC circuitry between the VHS and DVD parts of the recorder. There is also circuitry to ease the chroma noise from VHS tapes. It’s just a single line TBC and to really correct this may take a full frame TBC, but it might help more than you suspect. Simply play the tape in this device and take S-video and audio outputs from it to your NLE. No need to burn a DVD unless you want to supply it back to the client. Just go straight into the NLE while playing back the VHS tape, don’t burn a DVD and use that to feed your NLE. You’re just using the correction circuitry in the VHS/DVD recorder. If you don’t have one, someone you know may, or you can probably find one cheap. Panasonic or Sony seem the best but that probably isn’t critical.
Good Luck,
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Arturo,
You might want to look at this one. It’s not armoured like some more expensive ones but it does have BNCs for component input:
https://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v8000hd/index.htm
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Peter,
Since those clips were put up 9 months ago, that’s impossible.
Ron Shook
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Kevin,
Assuming the macro function isn’t enough if you can’t find the correct sized diopters for the EX lens, get a step up to Series9 and you can put anything you want in front, and It’ll work for you next camcorder as well.
Ron Shook
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
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Ben,
[Ben Insler] “Ultimately the best backup would probably be to a tape backup drive – these can hold TB of data, but they’re really expensive.”
Library data tape drives are really expensive, but single tape at a time LTO3 data drive units are around $2k (check out Dell Storage solutions), 400GB tape cartridges are around $40 each. You’d manage your data much like you would manage a cache of external hard drives, i.e., log into a searchable database, and they are nearly as fast as slow hard drives to write and read from. $10 cents/GB is the least expensive media around and the drives are a heck of a lot less than tape decks.
We’ve gotta do some IT, not legacy video thinking here.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*