Rennie Klymyk
Forum Replies Created
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As these signals are written to tape DVCPRO 25 is 18 micron track pitch; DVCAM is 12 microns and DV is 9 microns. Although the compression schemes are the same I suppose there may be embedded instructions on where the data is placed along the tape physically to give you the footprint of each format. As I understand it, as the helical head writes a frame on the moving tape, the footprint is elongated so instead of square it is sort of diamond shaped, like a slightly pushed over square. As the next one is written the top of the footprint hangs over the toe of the last one. With DV these footprints only slightly overlap but with DVCAM there is more overlap and with DVCPRO this overlap between frames, as it is physically written, is quite robust. This is an advantage for the editing decks as they are able to follow the signals better with the wider track pitches.
This is how I understand it anyway, maybe someone else can sync us up on this issue. -
I knew firewire was available in 10; 20 and 50 meter lengths (or 33; 66; and 164 foot lengths) as I have the Videonics Distance DV cables but I hadn’t seen the 100 meter lengths. Videonics used to demo this cable in their booth at NAB and it works great. I just found this on line while searching for the 100 meter cable though and it looks interesting if it works properly. Newnex FireNEX800 Videonics has/is upgrading the MX Pro Dv mixer to include 4 firewire inputs. If it is compatible with the HVX200 streaming HD through firewire this will be a very affordable HD live switching set-up. I wish Videonics would add a 2nd. firewire output to this mixer. While I’m at it they need to build the power converter into the unit and have a quieter fan. Other than that it’s a fine piece of gear.
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Another good reason for HD-SDI on this model. You could do multi camera events to a switcher, very cost efficient.
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I hope an SDI isn’t a $6000.00 option like the 1200 deck. These decks should have had firewire and HDSDI built in instead of $6000.00 and $4000.00 options. If they came off the assembly line with it built in in all units it wouldn’t have cost so much to add on and wouldn’t want it. These manufacturers are learning too much from Ioccoca who saved chrysler. “You want doggie dishes” (hub caps)? “thats $400.00″…..”OK… how many would you like sir?” Don’t you just hate marketing ploys and sales gimmicks? Especially when you were just at the same marketing seminar as the slipery salesman who is now appling it to you.
Pannasonic has been very reasonable on pricing this camera so far so I hope it is built in at a reasonable cost. -
[David] “Sorry, let me add a question:”
No need to be sorry, this is a discussion and you have raised some valid points.
[David] “How many years do you need to reach 100,000 rewriting cycles? Assuming that you use them ALL DAYS (including Saturday and Sunday) and that you make 2 cycles per day (very optimistic), you’d need…
100000/365/2= 137 years!!! “
Wow! I never got that far in my equations! By 2 cycles per day do you mean 16 minutes? 2 X 8GB cards?[David] “Please, be a bit more rational.
Don’t try to compare with tape in terms of cost/min because it’s not logical. Do you store your personal pictures in flash memory? And in HDD? No, you at the end stores in optical media (probably DVD) due to $/MB. “
At the time I switched to digital with my still camera the only affordable burners for DVD were the Pioneer 101’s and later the 201’s which were $7200.00 at the time and DVD’s for it were about $50.00 each! My, how things have changed! I backed up everything to cd in those days. I’ve only recently started backing up to DVD. My 1st. 96MB card was $450.00 and taxes which was about the cost of a case (100 -36exp.) rolls of film and this card(I still have has paid for itself)
[David] “Even more… If you try to let your PCMCIA inside your camcorder, and you don’t transfer the content into NLE system (to save time), you will have your camcorder stopped for shooting during… how much time? Are you able to make an edition with on line quality in few minutes? No, you will need some hours (even for only the 8 minutes of the ridiculous memory autonomy in HD). That is, more impossible to make two rewriting cycles per day. “
Are you saying “if you transfer your date through firewire instead of removing the cards to a computer you will have down time? Yes this is correct. Presently with only 8GB cards available there are limitations especially for HD where you get 8min per card. With only 2 slots it would be difficult to hot swap for continuous shooting on this model.
I’m not sure what you mean by “hours” to transfer 8 minutes.Still, by the math in the 1st thread, P2 cards are 1/600th the cost of tape for HD at present. Divide 137 years by 600 and this technology is still a good deal.
The whole point of this thread was to dispell the idea that P2 cards are astronomically expensive. They are like buying several years supply of tape all a once. (not fun but consider it an investment, it will come back as savings eventually) I agree we need bigger cards for practical HD work.
If we look at what cameras we presently own and look at how long we’ve had them, we will appreciate the AG-HVX200 will be more and more usefull as time passes. We buy this stuff for the long run.
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You can also look at the camera from the bottom up. It’s a DVX-100a (it has mini dv transport) List $3995.00. PLUS wide format chip set (Canon XL2) (what’s that worth?) BUT it’s future proof! DVCPRO 25; 50; 100 @ 24; 30; 60 + variiiiiable. Bid the HD jobs at varicam prices (help pay for more cards). I live on an island and have to pay to heli-jet an HD cam from the mainland plus lose a day’s rental in transport (counting return trip). Rentals are not always available when you want, especially if you’re waiting for weather or what ever and need to act fast. You can own this thing and have it at your finger tips for cheap. For all this convenience I’ll make the P2 cards work, even the small ones. If you get your 100,000th. “write” on a card they are 1/600th the cost of tape! That’s right, by the time you’ve worn out a $2000.00 8GB P2 card you will have spent $1.00 for every $600.00 you would have spent on HD tape. You can put the money saved into archival storage of original data and final edits. It will be interesting to see what capture and long term archiving options are available in 6 months. Unless some golden oppertunity arises justifing an HDV purchase I’m just going to sit back and wait the 6 months.
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Here’s the link to the Panasonic web site with photos- AG-HVX200
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Too bad, I’d rather Panasonic’s own DVCPRO tape format, even just 25mbs.
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[Randle G. Mason] “I kept receiving the error message “can not connect to db” “
The servers must be smokin, I’m getting it yesterday and today frequently too.
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[Blub] ” If you spend $1 or $12,000 for a daily shoot you must archive it. You must copy those P2s to tape so its not on a drive or forever loaded in those p2s. So you spend $12000 for the P2s then you spend $104 more for the tape to archive it. What? “
I keep hearing this word “achive” but do you know museams don’t consider anything archival that won’t last 50 years. The video industry should use the term “dump to tape” and not “archive”. Tape is a very poor archiving medium and this industry has needed a new vehical for this purpose for a long time. DVD is more stable but unfortunately is also highly compressed. Perhaps the holographic storage mentioned in Graeme Nattress’s link further down this thread will be the answer for true archiving of our masters. Incidently you have to copy and paste that link as only the 1st half is hyper sensitive. I’ll try to re-do Graeme’s link – Holographic HHHUUUUMMMM… this doesn’t seem to work so cut and paste https://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1785630,00.asp