Misha Aranyshev
Forum Replies Created
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[Robert Monaghan] “After doing some reading of this thread, it appears that you are a bit a bit out of the loop on some of the products out there. Understandable, as you need to have a workflow that is solid. “
We are not in the camera rental business. We edit, create VFX and grade. We don’t pick a recorder. We work with whatever production hired.
[Robert Monaghan] “I have been building a brand new suite to tools to retrofit Final Cut Pro to do a proper conform. This is regardless of the image format. The tool is designed to work with DPX frames, as well as ARRIRAW and Phantom Cine files. “
That’s great news. With all its shortcomings FCP will beat any high end software at simple task like comparing an offline cut to the scans assembly. If FCP could actually move DPX around like it can move QT Movies that would save weeks of time.
[Robert Monaghan] “A Quick Question..
I know for a fact that 2K DPX is exactly the same data size as 2K ARRIRAW. So if you were to do 2k DPXs, wouldn’t your data requirements be the same if you converted your R3D footage to DPX? “Only the footage, that goes into the cut gets converted. That’s no more than 2TB. As for converting vs working native it is good grading and compositing tools start to support RAW workflow but if I start sending untrimmed takes to the VFX guys they seen will go on strike.
Look, there is some misunderstanding here and I believe it is becvause we don’t specify what kind of projects we are talking about. If it is a 30 sec TV spot with 20 minutes of source footage it will fly through any facility at full speed no matter what’s the source format. If it is a feature film where footage comes in chunks over several weeks on slow external drives, takes tons of storage space and are not required for any work for month until the picture is locked managing files becomes a serious task.
Let’s say you have an editing seat and a grading seat. Both have good DAS arrays, fast and big. Where do you copy the footage coming from the set? You don’t. Because it will interfere with whatever current work is going on. You make a “workprint” and give it to your editor. You back up your transfer disk to LTO. And you keep your transfer disk until the picture is locked and it is time to “cut the negative”. That’s where you need a conform utility.
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This Toolkit provides a conversion tool that will generate a new set of ARI files from the S-Two DPX frames.
And double the required storage. I’m happy with Robert’s Cineon/DPX Toolkit but I don’t have any need for ARRIRAW Toolkit right now. Pomfort Silverstack will chew through a day’s worth of s.two footage overnight just fine giving me a nice batch of quicktime dailies with all metadata embedded. When the cut is finished a simple CMX3600 EDL is sent to a colorist along with the original DPX’s. The problem is clients buy grading hours not copying-every-take-to-the-grading-station-array hours and moving-files-around hours. That’s why I have to pull the shots out. Just like the do with camera negative.
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Gary, are you seriously suggesting to cut a longform with the original footage from either RED One or D-21?
The GlueTools ARRIRAW conform tool for FCP is even being updated for the Alexa release and will allow full control of the codec within FCP, and this is something that cannot be done with R3D files with out going into Color or out of FCP into another app.
I get D-21 from s.two DFR. It is RAW in DPX wrapper. Robert Monaghan explicitly refused to support this format in either ARRIRAW Toolkit or Cineon/DPX Toolkit. But that’s not the point. I’m talking about pulling out exactly the frames that went into the cut from the back up storage. There is a choice of tools for R3D right now. There is one promised to be released this summer for D-21.
OK, forget R3D and ARRIRAW. Let’s talk about regular RGB DPX. Let’s say you have a film edited and scanned, ready for grading or graded already. Then you have a trailer too. How would you pull the 3,000 frames used in the trailer out of 180,000 that makes your film? What software?
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Didn’t I wrote there will be such an utility around this summer right in this thread and even mentioned its name?
🙂
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[gary adcock] “You seem to want to bash everything about this, and you keep speaking as if yours is the only point of view.”
The fact RAW workflow is discussed, offered by manufacturers and used by post facilities shows it is not exclusively mine point of view.
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Gary, the issue is so simple it probably gets below the radar. With R3D you can feed an EDL to a simple utility that will pull all the shots used out of any number of attached disks and nicely put it in a single folder. With ARRIRAW there is no such thing.
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[gary adcock] “Storage is cheap- so skip that argument. “
Sure. Just calculate how long will it take to load 40TB of ARRIRAW’s to your grading suite array vs. how long will it take to load 4TB of R3D. And right now you must have all the footage online before finishing tools you mention can be used.
Again, I’m talking about what we have right now. In three months Pomfort will release Silverstack 2.0, hopefully.
[gary adcock] “Arri made a choice before RED was released to fit into the known, existing workflows”
R3D fits into the existing DPX workflow just fine.
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ProRes is good for jobs ending up on video. If go to the big screen you’d want RAW. ProRes is good as a dailies format and having a camera to output both “digital negative” and “digital dailies” speed things up considerably.
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Playback isn’t workflow. The ability to pull out of forty hours of footage exactly two hours that went into your cut is. With R3D you can do it. With ARRIRAW right now you cannot. As far as I know the required tools will be available some time this summer. By the way when Red One was out it didn’t come with a clear workflow.
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Alexa isn’t out but D-21 is. I’ve been through tons of footage from both over the last several month. If you’re after the picture quality it is Arri. If you want projects go faster through your shop it is currently RED One. There is a variety of software utilities making R3D workflow smooth. There isn’t much to help ARRIRAW. In my estimate it’s about three to six month until we see some relative software parity. Also R3D is relatively easy on storage but ARRIRAW needs truckloads of it. It is more expensive to shoot and post ARRIRAW. Very different markets.