Michael Brennan
Forum Replies Created
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It looks like it will use a IT rather than FIT ccd so there is a (technical) difference. It could use 14bit AD rather than 12bit.
In theory it should be slightly better if they haven’t gone cheap and not ironed out any bugs.We’ll wait and see.
Summising now…
If they are using the block from the 1500 then with a big increase of ram the camera could do a minute of 1440×1080 60p before downloading to tape.
OK it ain’t gonna happen, they’ll do that on the SR camcorder first… then in say 2008 it will be available on HDCAM…Mike Brennan
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Any other spec? I guess it uses less than 1920×1080 ccds for the money?
March delivery would make life very interesting!
Ron, is it time for an Infinity Forum or should we file it under the HD high end forum…
Mike Brennan
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Jiri is right, the lack of spec of the ccd is an novel and interesting state of affairs.
How many are buying this camera without knowning the tech spec of the ccd?
Everyone.
Masterfull marketing that has not appeared to have affected the first wave of buyers at least.
Mike Brennan
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[Ron Shook] “While it’s gonna be considerably more difficult and somewhat more expensive to work-flow with for everything but DV, in 2 or 3 years P2 (solid state memory) technology will start to rival tape in cost, and we’ll never look back.”
What do you base your figures on Ron?
Mike Brennan
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[jiri vrozina] ”
I have seen Sony’s new 1/2′ HD xdcam in Sydney month ago.
For the same money + lens one should be able to buy Infinity.
There is really no contest..”There is no way the Infinity camera body will be the same price point as the XDCAM HD body and then you’ll have to use a 2/3 inch HD lens on the Infinity which in itself is the same price as the complete xdcam with its cheapo lens!
There is no contest because they will be different ends of the market.
If they change the specs and use a cmos on the the Infinity then it will be cheaper, but the 2/3 inch lens is likely to be 2x more expensive than a 1/2 inch lens for years to come.
Another factor to consider is that the Infinity was just a block of wood in Sept. Generation 3 of XDCAM product line is likely to launch in the next 18 months, so Infinity a 1st Generation (including new recording system) vs 3rd generation Sony.
I am in favour of the infinity concept but not going to bet the farm on a new stuff working like it says on the box.
Mike Brennan
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[tony salgado] “Other models you may see at NAB are a 1/2 CCD camcorder with a XDCAM HD back (this camera will be a lower cost solution aimed at broadcasters).”
If what wa son show at IBC was anything to go by, this isa chaeap, but not a brilliant camera.
Lower res in P mode (they may say it is a progressive HD camcorder but it isn’t a progressive ccd. (there is jiggery pokery at the camera head end)Mike Brennan
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[toke lahti] “I hope Panny (or someone else) will release finally 16:9 sq.pix recording format for lower price cameras.
Hvx200 could already had 1280x720p24/25/50/60@4:2:0@100Mbps, which I believe would have been optimal combination for PQ with its ccd’s and recording datarate.”Good points. couldn’t it do 4:2:2 though?
Mike Brennan
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[jiri vrozina] “You can shoot on film using Aaton super 16 mini.”
It all gets back to using a stabilised V14 with f950 for the aerials. Its low weight gives us 12000 ft capability for 3 hours, 130 knots, with out needing to land to change mags.
22x lens with full control of polaiser, high res display to check focus and exposure and bug stikes. The stability is way beyond the film systems.
DVCRPO HD recording will intercut better with the pristine 444 recordings from the stabilised f950 than super 16mm would.
Then there are the other drawbacks of using film in this environment
Size of camera,
Need for seperate audio recorder and synch workflow
Weight of shipping kit and film
No same hour confidence replay, which is very important for unmanned cameras (how much did the sun flare into the lens? when did the bug strike happen?)
No in synch sound recording repaly on location.
Limited scope for the pilot to change mags but easier to change P2 cards. (if hard drive not ready)So using film would offer poor production value to the producer (ie too many compromises for benifits of an extra stop in the highlights)
Mike Brennan
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[gary adcock] “acquisition and compression to tape are to completely difference things, I do not disagree about the Genesis or Viper (what no D20 or Red?)”
Yes they are completely differnet things but inextricibly linked in a camcorder (unless you use the HD outputs, but hewre one must be careful, since a camera like the Panasonic 400 upconverts to 1920×1080)can attach a D-5 Deck to a VariCam and capture the full 1280×720 @ 4:2:2 space, I can attach that same deck to a F900 and get 1920×1080 and capture it in 4:2:2 also (instead of the 3:1:1 HDcam records to tape)
“The top of the line Varicam records 960×720. Is Varicam True HD? No! There is no 960 x 720pixel HD format defined by SMPTE. So HDCAM format 1440×1080 pixel ain’t true HD SMPTE 274 either.”That is not correct. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Varicam/ DVCPROHD standards conform to the SMTPE D7 and D12 specs for content acquisition.
The SMPTE 274 specs you refer to is the video stream being delivered over HDSDI and not what the cameras acquire.”Opps that what I was getting at, there are no SMPTE HD transmission standards for 1440×1080 or 960×720 pixels.
Even the majority of new HDTV setes have more pixels than are recorded in the cameras we’ve mentioned.
The D in HD is for definition, thats pixel grunt.Manufacturers have spent the money and developed 1920×1080 ccds, 14bit ADs, we have the edit capability of 1920×1080 4:2:2 and the transmission standard of 1920×1080 (or 1220×720) but excluding Genesis, there is no True HD camcorder solution under $250k (Viper or D20 with Flash Pack feeding to a SRW on location would deliver).
We are poorly served by the manufacturers in this regard! and await Pansonics full spec camcorder or a SR camcorder at 10bit.
In light of the above the 200 is exceptional value, I hope to use one in New Zealand in a few weeks, in cockpit of a glider, as it appears to be the smallest highest quality camera for the job until the Iconix appears.
Panasonic are also using the phrase, “True HD Picture Quality” for the 200, a less inaccurate marketing term given the lack of standards for aesthetics.
Mike Brennan
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[gary adcock] “the HVX200 shoots the same format as the top of the line Varicam, it is considered to be a “True HD” format where as HDV was conceived as for consumers- it is not frame accurate for editing in its native space. “
“True HD” is a Panasonic marketing phrase.
The top of the line Varicam records 960×720. Is Varicam True HD?
No! There is no 960 x 720pixel HD format defined by SMPTE.
So HDCAM format 1440×1080 pixel ain’t true HD SMPTE 274 either.In my book a “True HD” camera is one where the number of pixels recorded matches the SMPTE format and where the number of pixels in the camera head is the same as or greater than what is recorded (and it has a lens matched to the format).
Using this formula, a “True HD” camcorder is the Genesis with a docked SRW1.
The 200 uses progressive frame to interlace cross conversion processing, offset ccd (to makeup for less than full HD res ccd) and sampling before recording to DVCPROHD codec.
A it too much going on to call it “True HD” in my book.It should be “Truest” at 720 because, correct me if I’m wrong, this appears to invlove the least in camera processing.
Mike Brennan