[Luis Caffesse]

[Graeme Nattress] “I really just don’t get what kind of workflow would warrant repeated recompressions…. “

Me neither Graeme, which is why I asked.
You and I are on the same page on this one.
I’m just trying to make sure I understood the workflow that Jason was proposing,
especially in relation to P2.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

Mick,

Here is the website for Panasonic Canada:

https://www.panasonic.ca/

And the contact page:

https://www.panasonic.co.jp/global/gn/na/index.html#Canada

Hope that helps.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

Jason,

Pretty much every project I do goes through AE at some point (in the end for color work for example).
I use Automatic duck to rebuild my timeline in AE, and then from there I can render out to whichever codec I want my master to be.

So, are you saying that CFHD codec will handle that workflow better?

It definitely gets a bit weird to follow this when you put it into the P2 context, or any direct-to-disk recording. Essentially I would have to transcode my footage to CDHD, then pull that into AE, and then render out to whatever I want once I’m done in AE?

Just trying to get a handle on this.
This is interesting to me, because I know many people who work with intermediate codecs, and it’s an issue that I never thought about before in terms of P2. The thing that really turned me off to HDV was having to transcode your footage. Granted, no one is saying you have to do this with DVCProHD, only that you may get better results.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[js33] “It seems like Pana need to get more up to speed with current technology to make this P2 stuff more inviting. “

While 60GB may not seem like enough, I think it’s a bit ironic to say they need to get up to speed with current technology given that they are offering up the first solid state HD camera for under 10,000.

Also, while we still haven’t gotten confirmation on the ‘frame tagging’ issue. If the new cam only records the ‘active frames’ (and I see no reason why is won’t) then 60GB would actually hold about roughly 3 hours and 24 minutes of DVCProHD 720P/24 (5MB/s datarate). At 100mb/s you should be able to store roughly an hour and 20 minutes of footage.

Also, Jan has repeatedly reminded us to ‘wait for NAB,’ as it seems there are other options that we don’t yet know about.

I think Panasonic defintely knows what they’re doing here.
And, considering Jan’s willingness to interact on the boards, they are at the very least aware of people’s concerns with recording times. I think it’s fair to say that these issues will be addressed at NAB.

Now all we have to do is find a way to pass the time until then….

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[David Cherniack] ”
I believe the DVCProHD codec and the CFHD codec use about the same amount of bandwidth. Last time I looked they did. “

Right, but if we were to transcode all of our footage from DVCProHD we would need twice the hard drive space. Remember that on P2 everything is being kept on solid state, and then transfered directly to your hard drive for editing (with no digitizing).

If you were to transcode 1GB of footage, you would need 1GB to store the DVCProHD footage, and 1GB onto which you would save the CFHD footage.
Hence, twice the hard drive space.

That’s all I meant.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[Graeme Nattress] “o how is converting DVCproHD to an intermediate compressed codec going to improve matters?”

That’s what I was looking for Graeme.
Especially when it comes to P2, transcoding to some other ‘intermediate’ codec seems like a lot of work for little if no return.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[David Cherniack] “The workflow is play out of a DVCproHD”

David,

I was asking how we could use CFHD in relation to P2 media.
I realize the you would normally use a deck to play back your DVCProHD tapes, but with the HVX200 we will have no tapes. When using P2, there is no capturing to be done as all the clips are already accessible on the solid state memory.

I assume there is some way to easily convert DVCProHD footage to CFHD.
Of course, then we would need twice the hard drive space.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[Jason J Rodriguez] “Frankly, from the testing I’ve done, I would never go through post-production on a film using DVCProHD. I would readily choose CFHD because it gives the picture quality of uncompressed 10-bit, can withstand multi-generation passes like an uncompressed 10-bit codec, yet still give the editing speed of a compressed codec like DVCProHD. “

Jason, I’ve never actually seen or tested CFHD (though I’ve been reading about Cineform since the advent of HDV). Could you give me a quick rundown of how you would see the workflow going with something like P2 cameras?

Obviously you wouldn’t convert your footage upon capture, because there is no capturing to be done. So what would we use to convert the DVCProHD footage to CFHD, and how long do you think that transcode would take?

Would this work within FCP or Avid based systems?

Just curious, and I want to get a handle on all the post workflow options that are out there.

By the way, I’m glad to see you chiming in here on the new P2 forum. I’ve read your posts for a while on the CML and other places, and it’s great to have you, and your experience, adding to the pot here.

Welcome!

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

[PappasArts] “Don’t say that Luis, we must think positive. It will work , it will work . This might not, but something most likely will. “

Okay Michael…I misunderstood what you were getting at.
I thought you meant, ‘hey look, this hard drive will fit in the P2 slot, so chances are it will work straight out of the box.’ That’s something I’m not holding out much hope for.

But if you’re talking about someone out there finding a way to make it work, then yes, I’m with you. I’m constantly amazed by the lengths people will go to to accomplish what they feel they need to get the images they want (Juan with the Reelstream project, case in point).

I can’t wait to see what people come up with for this camera…and also what panasonic may already have in store for us.

We’re all on the same page now…
I wasn’t trying to be the wet blanket in this discussion.

I’m as big a cheerleader for the DIY solutions as anyone.
It’s part of what makes production at this level so fun and exciting for me.

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas

[Luis Caffesse]

“Pannie may take a hit on the actual camera to appear competetive but will make it up on the cards

You may be right…
But I don’t see that as being much different than any other time you move into a new format…

If I were to buy a DVCPro50 Tape camera, a Beta Camera, or even an HDV camera…I would have to invest in a deck.

I’ll probably spend less on P2 cards than I would have spent on a deck…
so in the end I think it’s a worthy investment (considering the cheapest DVCProHD deck is a bit over $20,000).

Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas