[Louis Zano]

Sure Stephen, here’s a screencap. It’s supposed to be video in the backgrounds and the animated credits on top of that. However whenever I 2-pass encode this project with Vegas this happens. It doesn’t happen on 1-pass.

[Louis Zano]

Thanks so much for the reply Mike! I did try rendering it with lower setting as you described, in fact the setting were close to yours listed I beleive. However it looked terrible on TV. I have rendered at this bitrate into mpeg2 and then imported that mpeg2 into TMPGENC Authoring Works and make the DVD. As far as 2-pass goes, do i do the 2-pass rendering from Vegas or from within the DVD authoring program which also allows for bitrate adjustments, 1 or 2 pass encoding, etc. In fact I always have to change my audio to Dolby Digital before the program will render the Vegas mpeg2 (which suggests to me that TMPGENC is making sure the content is proper for a standard DVD before it will even attempt to render it. I’m just not sure which render should be set to 2-pass…Vegas or TMPGENC. Also, as I mentioned earlier, whenever I render 2-pass, the opening credits get severely jumbled and pixelated.

[Louis Zano]

Hey Guys! Just a quick update here before someone wastes time answering me. I spent yesterday doing trial and error and is does indeed seem like the only time the open credits animation gets severely “blocky” is when I use 2-pass. This kind of stinks because my movie is 2.5 hours long and I am trying to squeeze it onto a standard blank Verbatim DVD-R. Now most of my 1-pass renders look pretty decent on TV, the only thing I see occasionally are vertical lines every now and again (in text and slightly in some scenes…but I am looking real close to find them so I don’t know that anyone else would notice.

What I am doing is rendering from Vegas using the following:

Rendering using Main Concept MPEG2
Using template DVD NTSC Video Stream
Bit rate settings are as follows:
High 9,500,000
Avg 6,000,000
Low 192,000

I’m not sure which template to use as I don’t know the difference between template DVD NTSC and DVD NTSC Video Stream.

As I said, my renders to DVD look fairly nice on TV, I am just trying to see if it’s possible to clean it up a bit more because even though the picture looks pretty good on TV (smooth camera pans, smooth movement like a “soap opera” looks and like the raw footage looks)I do still see some lines and grain every now and again in the picture. Keep in mind this is not an HD project, just an old-fashioned SD film. Perhaps I am trying to fix something that can’t be improved upon. I haven’t been able to see what 2-pass would like because as I said above, every time I render this project using 2-pass, the opening credits animation gets all jumbled up. So I am very, very, curious what it would like with 2-pass but I can’t get around the darn open credits not getting jumbled. Do you guys think 2-pass is even worth working on at this point? I mean will it make THAT much of a difference in terms of what I’m trying to fix?
Also, I actually author the DVD with TMPGENC Authoring Works (TAW) and I would like to know if I need to set that to 2-pass too even if the master mpeg2 file was rendered in Vegas using 2-pass (if I am even able to get that far with the open credits problem.) That’s something that confuses me, how to set up the authoring program considering that 2-pass will have already been done in the Vegas rendering.
Thanks guys!

[Louis Zano]

Thanks Steve!
Well the reason I did the opening credits to my film separately as a separate Vegas project is because it’s a rather complex sequence featuring moving animated text and background video. I had asked in another thread if nesting was the same thing as rendering to AVI and importing. I was told yes but rendering first and importing is more work VS just nesting. However I now nested the opening credits into my final project and I am going to see if that makes the credits even more crisp. I expect the same results as when I imported the rendered AVI of the opening credits but I wanted to try anyway. So as I write this I am rendering the final film again, this time with the open credits project nested directly into the final project timeline. There was some audio missing when I did this but I simply added the audio to another audio track and lined it up. So I will see how this looks in a few hours when the render is complete. I am hoping nesting improves the clarity of the credits as opposed to importing the AVI but only time will tell now. It’s going to take a day or so to render and then burn to DVD to test my theory.
Thanks again for all the help here! You guys are truly awesome to take time out of your day to answer people’s questions here. Kudos to you all!

[Louis Zano]

Hi Steve!
Actually I am not really all that experienced with “computer” editing. I’ve only been at it a few years starting with the terrible Windows Movie Maker, then Edit Magic, and finally I got to a good program with Vegas. Before that I was doing things the old fashioned way, with standalone equipment and a monitor! LOL! I learned Vegas basically through teaching myself through watching many tutorials and awesome forums like this one.
Thanks also for your cropping advice although my problem is the reverse, I need to take letterboxed movie clips and make them fit the frame. I used the preset 4:3 in the cropping tool and although it does change the image, there are still tiny slivers on the edges that I can see the background video moving in. So the 4:3 is leaving a tiny bit exposed to the underlying video. Although time consuming, I can just go through the entire film and recrop them and try again.

Of course I could be missing your meaning in your reply…are you suggesting that instead I turn my entire project into LB as opposed to 4:3? I would do that but I was always worried about quality loss in the cropping so I’ve always left my movies in the native 4:3 standard def in which they were shot. Yes, I know, I’m an antique but my Soy Handycam is such a nice camera and it shoots gorgeous footage so I haven’t made the HD jump yet.

[Louis Zano]

Hey thanks Steve and Stephen! I TRULY appreciate your expertise! I must say this site is great! Not only can I get answers and learn how to do new things in Vegas, but I can also help others who don’t know how to do things I do know how to do! A great community here.

Anyway, yes, I figured since I already rendered all my film’s segments into AVO that nesting might be redundant, I should’ve did that instead of rendering AVI’s.

Now let’s say, I have these AVI’s in my final project’s timeline and I add a couple MOV files and WMV files. I realize these will be compressed but when you mix files like that; am I correct in assuming that it’s always best to render in AVI (or MPEG-2 for DVD) to keep those non-AVI segments as best as they can look? I don’t really see a world of difference between AVI and MPEG-2…they both look pretty good.

One last couple of questions I have should be easy ones for you pros. I have imported a clip that is not 4:3 (my archaic ratio) and when I put it in the top track of the timeline (so it appear “over” the video in track 3) I can still see the backgrond of track 3 at the top and bottom of the clip. I tried manually cropping it but it never crops just perfect, you can still see a sliver of the background video. So my question is this, is there some auto-setting I can click to automatically make these clips fill the total frame? I tried clicking on 4:3 in the dropdown menu of the cropping tool, but it still leaves tiny slivers on the left and right, so it’s not really filling the frame. Any thoughts or should I just keep tinkering manually to get it right?

My second question is regarding the text generator. When an entire timeline/project is an opening credits sequence, this is obviously created within Vegas itself. Normally I render in the exact same format as the imported media but in a case with text, where there is no importing involved, what is the best format to render text to use in the final project?

Thanks again guys, you are all amazing here and I am so happy to have found you all!

[Louis Zano]

Thanks John! That’s what I figures so I wanted to ask as opposed to continuing to chase a ghost. As you said, it doesn’t look bad but not quite as clear as the master footage so it’s good to know I have attained the best I can expect from standard 4:3 def footage. I also am taking into account that my 4:3 footage is being stretched to fit widescreen TV’s so that too obiously plays a part in this. Still, the end result isn’t horrible.
I am wondering something. I have another film that’s 2 hours 30 minutes long. Am I correct that this is too long for a standard blank DVD? Do I need dual layer and if so is it true the DL DVD’s pause for a few seconds when the layer switch happens? I wanted a two-hour feature but I have cut it down the most I can and I can’t get it under 2 hours without cutting important scenes. Do I have any options? Thanks again guys!

[Louis Zano]

Thanks Grazie,
However I beleive my Vegas project to be the same properties of the imported AVI’s already. The only thing I didn’t do on your steps above was render audio and video separately. I did, however, render the project in that MPEG-2 format. So I don’t think that’s the problem. So am I to understand there’s a way to burn a DVD within Vegas itself? If so perhaps if I render the DVD in Vegas, but steal the AUDIO/VIDEO TS files and import those into TMPGENC AW that may work. I suppose it depends on if I get the same grain I see the way I’m doing. If I render a DVD with Vegas and it looks as I want it to, maybe I’ll try stealing the TS file as I mentioned above. Not sure that would work but I think there’s a way to do it so I can use the menus I’ve already created in TMPGENC AW.

[Louis Zano]

Hi there John!
Well I don’t know is this matters but I should mention it. I don’t shoot in HD, I have an old Sony Handycam, in fact it uses tape. So HD is not a concern of mine. Not sure if you already knew that.
Now as far as using Main Concept…isn’t that when I render in Vegas to Mpeg-2? I did that as well…and then burned another DVD and it looks identical to when I just burned the AVI. Am I misunderstanding you guys? Thanks SO MUCH for the replies and your time in sharing your expertise fellas. I really appreciate your time!

[Louis Zano]

Why aren’t you using Vegas MC (Main Concept) Encoder for the DVD files? Why use TMPGEnc (that’ll be the Tsunami MPG 2 Encoder – right?)

Hi Grazie! Thanks for the reply!

Well the film I am working on is a third sequel in a film series. I authored the first 3 films with TMGENC AW 4 so I used the same menu templates for the 4th film since I don’t have time to recreate them in another program.

I don’t know the s/w you are using. Nor would I have a clue about what additional “grain” you’re getting, by not using the Vegas MC Encoder? Any video I’ve done to DVD using the Vegas Encoders for DVD have been rock solid and don’t “acquire” grain as a result of the MC Encoders. If I’ve got grain it was already there by way of my own inept camera/editing work.

Well my original footage is crystal clear, it has that “soap opera look” as I call it. I imported the footage as AVI and kept them AVI’s throughout my editing processes. So the grain is being created in TMPGENC AW because when I watch the rendered file from Vegas, it too looks nice and clear on my laptop screen. I tried rendering as AVI and burning to DVD and then I tried rendering as MPEG-2 and burning to DVD…both looked identical on our T.V. Not horrible by any stretch, just a little bit grainy.

I’d hazard a guess that on this Vegas Forum not many people would be able to respond to your particular enquiry regarding that particular s/w. However, when I’ve used TMPGEnc s/w – that was MPG1, for VCDs – it was terrific!

Yeah I like TMGENC AW. I’m sure it’s probably some setting in TMPGENC AW now which, I guess, makes my post here off-topic now (sorry about that.) The rendered Vegas files look great so whatever is happening is happening in the TMPGENC program when burning the DVD.

Also, what is “inside” that AVI? Asking about the quality is similar to asking me to determine the the niceties of a Legal Contract from looking at the envelope in which the contract it is contained.
Yes, I understand that an AVI is just a container, however I don’t know what’s inside. Whatever is inside them when they are imported from my camcorder is what I assume stays inside them as long as I don’t change formats when rendering. I was always under the impression that as long as you render edited files in Vegas to the same type as the original file, there is no quality loss. I thought that when I saw the Vegas preview window saying “no compression needed” during the rendering process that that was a sign that the files were unchanged, save for my edits. Perhaps I am mistaken.
Thanks for the reply Grazie, I appreciate the help! If I don’t figure this out by early next week I will probably just settle on the final DVD as it is. As I said, the quality isn’t horrible, but I just want to make sure that if it is indeed possible to improve it, that I try and do that, even at risk of making a few coasters. Thanks again Grazie and CHEERS back at ya’! I hope you are having a good weekend!