TIME SENSTIVE advice needed please re; SONY VEGAS DVD RENDERING

[Graham Bernard]

Why aren’t you using Vegas MC (Main Concept) Encoder for the DVD files? Why use TMPGEnc (that’ll be the Tsunami MPG 2 Encoder – right?) I don’t know the s/w you are using. Nor would I have a clue about what additional “grain” you’re getting, by not using the Vegas MC Encoder? Any video I’ve done to DVD using the Vegas Encoders for DVD have been rock solid and don’t “acquire” grain as a result of the MC Encoders. If I’ve got grain it was already there by way of my own inept camera/editing work.

I’d hazard a guess that on this Vegas Forum not many people would be able to respond to your particular enquiry regarding that particular s/w. However, when I’ve used TMPGEnc s/w – that was MPG1, for VCDs – it was terrific!

Also, what is “inside” that AVI? Asking about the quality is similar to asking me to determine the the niceties of a Legal Contract from looking at the envelope in which the contract it is contained.

So, what’ll it be?

Cheers

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge

[Louis Zano]

Why aren’t you using Vegas MC (Main Concept) Encoder for the DVD files? Why use TMPGEnc (that’ll be the Tsunami MPG 2 Encoder – right?)

Hi Grazie! Thanks for the reply!

Well the film I am working on is a third sequel in a film series. I authored the first 3 films with TMGENC AW 4 so I used the same menu templates for the 4th film since I don’t have time to recreate them in another program.

I don’t know the s/w you are using. Nor would I have a clue about what additional “grain” you’re getting, by not using the Vegas MC Encoder? Any video I’ve done to DVD using the Vegas Encoders for DVD have been rock solid and don’t “acquire” grain as a result of the MC Encoders. If I’ve got grain it was already there by way of my own inept camera/editing work.

Well my original footage is crystal clear, it has that “soap opera look” as I call it. I imported the footage as AVI and kept them AVI’s throughout my editing processes. So the grain is being created in TMPGENC AW because when I watch the rendered file from Vegas, it too looks nice and clear on my laptop screen. I tried rendering as AVI and burning to DVD and then I tried rendering as MPEG-2 and burning to DVD…both looked identical on our T.V. Not horrible by any stretch, just a little bit grainy.

I’d hazard a guess that on this Vegas Forum not many people would be able to respond to your particular enquiry regarding that particular s/w. However, when I’ve used TMPGEnc s/w – that was MPG1, for VCDs – it was terrific!

Yeah I like TMGENC AW. I’m sure it’s probably some setting in TMPGENC AW now which, I guess, makes my post here off-topic now (sorry about that.) The rendered Vegas files look great so whatever is happening is happening in the TMPGENC program when burning the DVD.

Also, what is “inside” that AVI? Asking about the quality is similar to asking me to determine the the niceties of a Legal Contract from looking at the envelope in which the contract it is contained.
Yes, I understand that an AVI is just a container, however I don’t know what’s inside. Whatever is inside them when they are imported from my camcorder is what I assume stays inside them as long as I don’t change formats when rendering. I was always under the impression that as long as you render edited files in Vegas to the same type as the original file, there is no quality loss. I thought that when I saw the Vegas preview window saying “no compression needed” during the rendering process that that was a sign that the files were unchanged, save for my edits. Perhaps I am mistaken.
Thanks for the reply Grazie, I appreciate the help! If I don’t figure this out by early next week I will probably just settle on the final DVD as it is. As I said, the quality isn’t horrible, but I just want to make sure that if it is indeed possible to improve it, that I try and do that, even at risk of making a few coasters. Thanks again Grazie and CHEERS back at ya’! I hope you are having a good weekend!

[John Rofrano]

I agree with Graham. I don’t know why you’re not using the MainConcept MPEG2 encoder in Vegas. I can’t help with a TMPGEnc problem because I don’t use it.

[Louis Zano] “Finally, I want to ask if any of you guys are able to render and not lose quality when keeping the original files the same format. In other words, is it even possible to get the same quality on a DVD as on the master tapes from the camcorder or am I chasing a ghost and being a pefectionist?”

No you cannot. A DVD is only Standard Definition and has 5 times LESS resolution than your original HD source so it will never look as good as the original. If you want output that looks the same as your source you need to invest on Blu-ray.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Louis Zano]

Hi there John!
Well I don’t know is this matters but I should mention it. I don’t shoot in HD, I have an old Sony Handycam, in fact it uses tape. So HD is not a concern of mine. Not sure if you already knew that.
Now as far as using Main Concept…isn’t that when I render in Vegas to Mpeg-2? I did that as well…and then burned another DVD and it looks identical to when I just burned the AVI. Am I misunderstanding you guys? Thanks SO MUCH for the replies and your time in sharing your expertise fellas. I really appreciate your time!

[Graham Bernard]

This is what I did with my Standard Definition AVI DV output from my Standard defintion 720×576 PAL cameras:

1] Captured AVI DV Tape to my hard drive

2] Imported from 1] above into Vegas and set my Project Settings to match my AVI DV 720×576 Wide-screen Footage.

3] Edited away in Vegas until finished.

4] Make a Time Selection of the Project in Vegas

5] Render in Vegas 2 files:-

i) For the Video > MC MPEG2: MyProject.mpg

ii) For the Audio > Dolby AC3: MyProject.ac3

6] Import into DVDA from 5] above and Prepare and then Burn

Done!

No hassle. No visible loss of quality. No grain. Only what I’d shot.

The other thing I do is use ReWritable DVD discs until I’m satisfied with my project. No need for making Coasters.

Cheers

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge

[Louis Zano]

Thanks Grazie,
However I beleive my Vegas project to be the same properties of the imported AVI’s already. The only thing I didn’t do on your steps above was render audio and video separately. I did, however, render the project in that MPEG-2 format. So I don’t think that’s the problem. So am I to understand there’s a way to burn a DVD within Vegas itself? If so perhaps if I render the DVD in Vegas, but steal the AUDIO/VIDEO TS files and import those into TMPGENC AW that may work. I suppose it depends on if I get the same grain I see the way I’m doing. If I render a DVD with Vegas and it looks as I want it to, maybe I’ll try stealing the TS file as I mentioned above. Not sure that would work but I think there’s a way to do it so I can use the menus I’ve already created in TMPGENC AW.

[Graham Bernard]

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[Louis Zano] “However I beleive my Vegas project to be the same properties of the imported AVI’s already.”
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Wel, I’d be wanting to find out for sure!

I use Sony DVDArchitect, DVDA, to create and burn my DVDs.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge

[John Rofrano]

[Louis Zano] “Well I don’t know is this matters but I should mention it. I don’t shoot in HD, I have an old Sony Handycam, in fact it uses tape. So HD is not a concern of mine. Not sure if you already knew that.”

Sorry I didn’t realize that. I didn’t think anyone was still shooting SD anymore. My mistake. I shouldn’t have assumed. 😉

Considering that your DV AVI footage is compressed 5:1 and DVD MPEG2 is compressed 25:1 you still won’t get the quality of a DV AVI file on a DVD. It shouldn’t look bad… but it won’t look as good.

If you are rendering to DV AVI and giving that to TMPGenc then the problem is with TMPGenc.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Louis Zano]

Thanks John! That’s what I figures so I wanted to ask as opposed to continuing to chase a ghost. As you said, it doesn’t look bad but not quite as clear as the master footage so it’s good to know I have attained the best I can expect from standard 4:3 def footage. I also am taking into account that my 4:3 footage is being stretched to fit widescreen TV’s so that too obiously plays a part in this. Still, the end result isn’t horrible.
I am wondering something. I have another film that’s 2 hours 30 minutes long. Am I correct that this is too long for a standard blank DVD? Do I need dual layer and if so is it true the DL DVD’s pause for a few seconds when the layer switch happens? I wanted a two-hour feature but I have cut it down the most I can and I can’t get it under 2 hours without cutting important scenes. Do I have any options? Thanks again guys!

[Louis Zano]

So are you guys basically saying that instead of rendering the project I can just burn a DVD straight from the Vegas edited timeline? I don’t understand what you mean by Main Concept, isn’t that just a template to render with? I render the finished timeline into MPEG-2 using the DVD template in Vegas. Then I import that MPEG-2 into TMPGENC Authoring Works, make chapters, menus, and render. Then I wait. However I didn’t know that TAW is actually “re-encoding” the video again, it actually says “writing track 1” (which is the aforementioned MPEG-2) then when that is done a few hours later it starts burning the DVD.
I guess what confuses me is why there are settings for bitrate and such in TAW when that was already done during the Vegas render. Maybe TAW is re-encoding so that’s why I was curious about Main Concept you guys keep talking about. It sounds like you can burn a DVD straight off the timeline in Vegas unless I am totally misunderstanding this. Obviously I would prefer to render a DVD straight from the Vegas timeline only if it was possible to somehow use the menu design I have created in TAW.